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==Psychological Game== The [[game]] is similar to the [[melodrama]] of hero, villain, and damsel in distress

A '''game''' is a structured activity, usually undertaken for [[pleasure|enjoyment]] ...universal part of human experience and present in all cultures. The Royal Game of Ur, Senet, and Mancala are some of the oldest known games.

...this, such light hearted light workers and such joyous participants in the game. It truly is a tribute to be offered to the Supreme that you will so eagerl ...ou as we enjoy the exercise of moving with spirit. A beautiful day for the game I should say, a good day to you all.

:7. a. A particular sport, [[game]], pastime, or [[recreation]]al activity. Now chiefly Psychol. In Old Engl :9. a. The activity of playing a sport or game; [[physical]] recreation, sport. [[ball]] play: see BALL n.1 Compounds 1; c

...ts psychologically as it can have a great [[impact]] on the outcome of the game.

...ncompasses all of the participants to be on the field, to be active in the game together, no observers on the sidelines only wishing they were playing a pa ...ass it off to another and so forth until all those out on the field in the game of life are actively participating. So be prepared when the ball comes into

...en the gate and say, "Come in. Come in and [[play]] with us. [[Share]] the game with us." And that’s the [[analogy]] that I would leave you with.

...perspective is enhanced and the individuals may come to realize that this game is but one in a long series of games. The rules will change. The dimensions

...ecognition, [[object recognition]] in [[computer vision]], [[strategy game|game playing]] and [[robot locomotion]].

...nd natural to want to be involved and active in your pursuit and be in the game whenever possible. ...all demonstrate a discipline and this is one of the important parts of the game.

Yet what is it except a [[game]] you play in which [[Identity]] can be denied? You cannot do. You play the game of [[death]], of being helpless, pitifully tied to

...re's some [[beauty]] and [[goodness]] there, and the truth of it is in the game of golf itself. ...fection]]! And mindal, too. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golf Golf] is a game that you have to exercise your mind with, so those things are good, I think

...of y[[our Father]]. There is no little role. All who would [[play]] the [[game]] are starters, for there is an [[integral]] part for the [[existence]] of ...anding]] then you will certainly come to know that this is not a partial [[game]]. This is an ongoing [[outreach]] that will continue on for much time, eve

...[[Supreme]] which is the current [[universe]] goal for all in this great [[game]] who are [[aware]] of the higher realities of [[spiritual]] [[citizenship]

...re to go and what to be ready for. Trust that your request to get into the game has been registered and that now your services may be required. You are ind ...ay. It is a pleasure to observe your own realization of your place in this game. I honor you all for your service. You are valued members of the corps. I r

...]'s theory of special relativity. Fiction [[author]]s were also in on the game: [[Edgar Allan Poe]] stated in his essay on cosmology titled ''Eureka'' (18

...en on small [[activities]] wherein you have [[practiced]] the plays of the game. Now does arrive the opening season. Those who begin the play we are [[assu ...son]], an event rare in occurrence. So, I [[assure]] you that in any given game you will hit a foul ball; you may strike out; you may be tagged out, but we

...andings, and therefore it is true that even unto this very moment that the game is in fact in play. If this were not so then your freewill choice would amo ...ion from being that of one on the sidelines to that of one involved in the game. It is most pleasing to witness your empowerment as we proceed forward with

game that we play here and all the circumstances and issues in life are in support of this goal and this game that is played for truly all

...]] and in constant [[fear]] of [[chance]]—bad luck. Life was an exciting [[game]] of [[chance]]; [[existence]] was a gamble. It is no [[wonder]] that parti

...decide to get in the game whenever you choose, when there is always a new game coming up, always a new season to plan, a new opportunity to start fresh.

...e collapse of modern metanarratives, people are developing a new "language game" -- one that does not make claims to absolute truth but rather celebrates a ...rather more pessimistic about the emancipatory claims of any new language-game; thus some would characterize them as post-structuralist rather than postmo

...combination of many ways. This continued expansion and [[growth]] is the [[game of the universe]] being played out and it is always such a [[joy]] to stand

...e can be employed, a new return can follow, making the same old ball a new game. ...at any one time. It doesn't really matter; it all is the [[game]]. And the game is what we play [[together]] and what you [[play]] when you go out and live

...well. Keep at it. And one thing: whenever you can, ask yourselves why the game with the jar and the pebbles arouses so much passion in you." When the two ...more important than what is represented on the level of appearances. This game must be played right through to its conclusion. To cede an inch in one's wi

...partial awareness [[inspires]] you to be more present, more at play in the game, more responsive to [[leadings]] and promptings and more willing to follow

...the plate, who takes up the bat to face the pitcher. The pitcher of a ball game is the role my associates and I take with you. We toss you the ball and you ...]]. We will continue to pitch balls your way and take delight, unlike your game, every time you hit. But in order for [[Urantia]] to [[progress]], there ne

...re most needful of offering some yourself. Always take the inter-personal game to a higher level. So many folks can be unintentionally insulting; you do ...e world with. Seek to find this on a genuine level far beyond any kind of game-playing or simple trading as in: I’ll be good if you’ll be good. Just

...nd of the discussion, so my “internal software” may get challenged but I’m game.

[[Buckminster Fuller]] in the offering of the second World Game Second World Game Workshop with Buckminster Fuller (1970)

...e destiny of your journey and of that of your patient. You are writing the game in advance of it being played. This is how it works, this is how it is done If life is a great programmed video game, then why not program the end results of Light and Life? The more creative

This constitutes the game in play at this point in your ascension career, to work on aligning your co ...ning your course throughout all of these that will happen as a part of the game that you play at this time. Nevertheless, the one with integrity is the one

...s who will make history, those are the ones who are showing up to play the game and you are among them.

...als of [[events]] in your lives represent your accumulated [[wisdom]] of a game plan to [[participate]] in this spirit arena. ...o raise each other up to the highest spiritual plane remains the same. The game [[plan]] varies widely according to the field we find ourselves on, the [[w

...iate the effects of the universe and thank Father for including you in the game plan. Then embrace your fellows in delight of the process and pick another

...ym for any kind of mistake, e.g., a dropped ball by a player in a baseball game. Philosophers and psychologists interested in the nature of the gaffe inclu

...rize.org/educational_games/medicine/dna_double_helix/ DNA the Double Helix Game] From the official Nobel Prize web site

...l remains in play. In a very real sense the end result is foretold but the game has yet to be played. This illustrates why it is very important that each o ...sdiction over is quite simple. Prepare yourselves individually to play any game, to weather any storm. Provide yourself with the long term perspective that

...A HP bar normally represents how much health a character has in a certain game and how much damage he/she/it can absorb before succumbing to faint/knockou

...to know your [[credentials]]. "Have you been saved? Are you playing the [[game]] by the rules that we use here?" And it's very [[intimidating]]; it spoils ...ke records and you just keep going round and round and round in the same [[game]]. It is true this is a matter of [[consciousness]], and when they are read

Lucifer insisted that each person be allowed to follow his own game plan. A game plan that did not include the Heavenly Father. Rather than start the child

...d to produce guilt feelings. I am simply telling you that this is the ball game, friends. This is where it really is!

...exist, they are not real. They are visions of potentials much as the video game is programmed with potentials, and the program may contain all options to b ...every hour, sometimes every moment opportunity to choose, that that is the game, that is the gift of grace and you are free to choose as you will.

...and for our world for the greater good. We are all simply players in this game awaiting the next move and determining how best to utilize all the factors

...exist, they are not real. They are visions of potentials much as the video game is programmed with potentials, and the program may contain all options to ...every hour, sometimes every moment opportunity to choose, that that is the game, that is the gift of grace and you are free to choose as you will.

...e the rules of the game so to speak. But there are also the players in the game and within the parameters of these rules you see a wide variety of players.

...ividual role in the process and guide yourself through this journey is the game at hand and it’s always a pleasure to watch you manifest your paths and m

...elf-realisation is turned into the will to power; sacrificed to status and role-playing, it reigns in a world of restrictions and illusions. The will to communicat ...up and disappear, so did the ambitious individuals concerned. However, the game goes on. People rely on Causes because they haven't been able to make their

Alexis (Cathy): "This is Alexis. Would you like to play a [[game]]? (group laughter, comments, agreement). ...g that comes to [[mind]]. You are not to worry about [[accuracy]]. If this game creates [[anxiety]], feel free to pass. I am going to [[touch]] the person

...these two different [[individuals]] because of what they [[interpret]] the game ceasing means for them personally. Your emphasis in the [[past]], and all ...s to the boy I described it's a relief because he doesn't have to play the game which he is [[frightened]] to do. So the same [[event]] can result in diff

In this way you begin to see how the game works and if you desire a specific result, then you must first create a lin

...o see what you see. I can't get my son to play bridge with me or learn the game. I can't get people to see what I see in reading The Urantia Book. I mean, ..., Intuition, Understanding, and Intelligence. I mean, there's a lot to the game. And you can play online and like Bridge Urantia. I like the idea and I'm g

The game that Cora has played with you in the past, is actually a very good one to e ...to be apparent, but you say, "um, today I am going to play my make believe game: I am going to make believe I am Cora and I am going to see what I would sa

...layers running about executing the individual moves necessary to play this game. Between us there is a certain partnership that exists already.

..., many different paths, many different perspectives and in order that this game be won, all must be accepted as valid approaches for they are there as a re

...sire to find the richest and truest part of ourselves in other people. The game ceases to involve play: it petrifies because the players can no longer make ...g whatever means it has to hand, will establish the preconditions for this game's never-ending expansion.

I am your coach. The [[Game of life|game is life]]. We are going to win. We're going to win! I have concluded my rem ...[[perfecting]] universe, as you know. And [[struggle]] is the name of the game.

...ot the whole ball game. This is just the first inning.....at the most! The game goes on. If you strike out in the first inning you are up to bat again in t

...; others will merely be the water boys, but any who have engaged in such a game as you play on your world know the value of the water boy. So, you all will

...selves as a [[secret society]] keeping a close hand to your chest in the [[game]] of life lest your brothers and sisters detect that you have [[information

...hoose but the fact that you are becoming aware that this is so is what the game is all about and you are correct in your assessment that when reaching in o

...the work of poetry and the work of the game (Eternity is the world of the game, said Boehme). However poor it may be, the present always contains true wea

...a [[team]] [[effort]] and without all the efforts of the team members, the game wouldn't be in [[motion]].

...on, an us versus them. When this happens just lighten up. Remember it is a game, a fantasy, sci-fi in its presentation. The reality, the depth, the value t

...r heart-felt conditions, it would suffice us to be at the mall or at the [[game]]. But, inasmuch as we seek to go beyond the common [[perception]] of [[rea ...llels/[[parables]] necessary to bring the reality of [[divinity]] into the game of golf and thus praise our Creator in [[leisure]] as well as in production

...minorities. To them, soldiers mean nothing and are just pawns in the great game of power and world domination. Like all wars, this situation one day will e

...ife. There is always something that [[motivates]] you to stay ahead of the game.

..., plugged up and therefore his [[energies]] are not the most useful. The [[game]] begins with me choosing to [[speak]] through another but I will not desig

...o as democracy is being tried and being developed as we speak. This is the game at hand, this is your time, your place. So if this is the game to play, play if from the highest motivation, the most divine approach. All

And so My children, you see how the game goes on. So much of what you are going through, day by day--personally, and

...and having digressed and turned away from the game and the Creator of the game you will cease to exist for you are not being fostered, you are not fosteri

...dered in the children and this is done through peaceful modeling, peaceful role-playing, and peaceful group activities. ...ffect upon the listeners. Remember that you must as well be players in the game than as spectators in the stadium. Your lives are lived through your faith

...f [[honor]] is akin to a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-sum zero-sum] game. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Rehm Rush Rehm] [[simplifies]] this de

...it. To begin with, the real struggle takes place between the leader of the game and the Leader. ...sibility of superseding it towards the poetry of action, towards the great game with signs.

...es. This [[phenomenon]] is often expressed in popular culture as "throwing game." Love and marriage clearly were always ironic, but not to this degree. In ...y_love_.html A History of Women: Silences of the Middle Ages] Rules of the game were even codified. For example, [[De amore]] (or ''The Art of Courtly Love

...your being. In a nutshell, my dear friends, that is it. That is the entire game. That is what you are here to do on Urantia. And so it is about bringing jo

...world. And 'picking someone off' is not really governing. It is playing a game of tit-for-tat.

...r [[signs]], I am at a loss as to why this one has taken me so long. The [[game]] is young. I will pick up the ball and run, as I feel I should. Thank you.

...ow that you are aware of some of the parameters, some of the basics of the game, of the mission to become more perfect just as our Divine Parents, once you ...sdom gained, the knowledge taken, the embrace of the total. So this is the game at hand, to spread the good news and good tidings that you are all connecte

...ere are no theatrics in our interactions with you. We do not see this as a game or play or a stage on which we must act. We do not take lightly our mission

...number of uploads) only produces the behaviour driven by the metric - "the game exists of the rules by which it is played". Cultivate the practice of colla

It is such an interesting [[game]] when you look at it that way. The Mother is always on hand with her regim

===Not a zero-sum game=== ...le to gain wealth without taking from others, and wealth is not a zero-sum game in the long term. Many [[things]] can affect the [[creation]] and destructi

those who rise with enthusiasm and ask to be put in the game are granted gazes on from the sidelines to one who is involved with you in the game if

...and so it is that those who rise with enthusiasm and ask to be put in the game are granted their petition. ...one who gazes on from the sidelines to one who is involved with you in the game if you would simply make a place for Me to go with you. I have spoken of th

...revalent on [[Urantia]] is a [[false]] and ignoble authority indeed. The [[game]] seems to be that there are those who find their way into [[positions]] of ...way to yet another [[false]] [[authority]], and you are only playing the [[game]] of giving [[obeisance]] to that authority when you actually opt to let yo

...final sense, or in an immutable sense. Yes, [[growth]] is the name of the game, but again I have found the key to be in the [[change]] of perspective, whi

...hosen one among the chosen, and one whose succession generally occurs as a game in which equals compete. Feudal lords serve the king, but they serve him as ...f hierarchical man; only the sadness of things, a gloomy placidity, uneasy role-playing, the awareness of "belng nothing".

...ustration for she is not inclined to give assignments but rather to find a game to play that will stimulate your growth. Her work is the work of fun.[thank

...r an opportunity waiting to manifest. Once you are aware that such is the game at hand, you may become masterful and skilled at navigating the process, no

...religious individuals in this realm, is that they speak on Sundays a good game and talk lofty ideals, and then depart from these lofty principals and idea

...d the [[reality]] into the forefront and upon your foreheads. This is no [[game]].

...irit. Groups get together and debate, argue, make no headway. It is like a game which animals play, to see who can leave their mark higher on the tree. We

...eality in their mind, even when they are away from the video station/video game, then you have real problems.

...s true of spiritual pursuits. Sometimes we are in the group feeling on our game, ready to go, in touch and willing to give our all and other times we feel

Father: My beloved son you play the game of a little child "Daddy I want this, I want this!" Even though the father

ELYSSIA The football game! The Steelers football game. Where tons of men in this city go to [[worship]] on Sunday morning, and so ...capturing his teammates and then, ideally, lifting them up to the Greater Game. Yes, I see his [[technique]].

MONJORONSON: I would be very pleased to. Imagine yourself at a hockey game, inside a closed arena, and although there are five thousand people there,

Mark: Indeed. As kids fall to arguing over whose [[game]] to [[play]], so we must live this life arguing. Perhaps the bright spot i

...became quite proficient at your [[game]] of pretend, did you not? And this game has served you well through most of your [[life]]. It is only now, now that

...ed in time. You see, that is how much you are trusted and loved. The whole game is up to you. Indeed the Father has bestowed upon you ultimate freedom, eve

Rantarason: Everybody wants to be part of the [[game]]. It is [[natural]] and it is not an [[admonishment]], rather a real reach

...imes of change. Mankind is hurdled together, like cattle, like frightened game. This is a surviving tactics of human beings, of most creatures which appea

...r of time. And if that is so then making the most of the time would be the game at hand. Knowing it is limited, one is driven to take advantage of what tim

...us. Help us to be willing participants; help us to be eager players in the game. Help us to never stop seeking because it is in this seeking that invariabl

Alana : And you, too, Sir John. Should you return, or should you not, the game is up, it is all over, you will receive my lessons, like it or not. They sh

Rantarason: Everybody wants to be part of the [[game]]. It is [[natural]] and it is not an [[admonishment]], rather a real reach

...iritual status to qualify as entering the age of Light and Life. The great game, the universe-purpose—and your own--of spirit conquering the material thr

...e, who say "put me in coach, I'm ready to play" just need to know what the game is, what the program is, what the pattern is for your personality, for you, ...e, they will get a reward -- perhaps a bicycle for Christmas or a computer game -- and so the energy you invest in working toward that goal will reap rewar

...y between all aspects, high and low and side to side. We are all in this [[game]] for one common [[goal]], not separate as are your [[material]] department

...sical contribution and it’s your contribution that it is so pivotal to the game. You are the ones that starts the reality loop of your choosing and then it

...o you in your [[spiritual growth]] to have those ahead of you in the great game reach down to [[assist]] you in your [[efforts]]. I ask you to then [[reali

...hrough manipulation of facial resemblance in a two person sequential trust game that having similar facial features (facial resemblance) enhanced trust in

...hts]]. Possibly you may deliver these thoughts and make this occur. This [[game]] of yours helps bring [[attention]] from your co-workers to the [[supernat

...ing for you and become self-acting. You have been watching this ping-pong game for so long you have forgotten that you can turn out the light, and they ca

...are still a member of that team even if they are simply there to cheer on game day. We are trying to create the village of Urantia, a strong sense of com

...to the distinction between the two intentions, that is basically the ball game, what we're here to try to illuminate.

...y]] regardless of their stature to unduly [[influence]]. This is how the [[game]] works here on this world. Many are looking for some [[savior]] to ride in

...orld]]. No one gave you the rules. You were called to the [[game]] for the game itself because you felt a [[pattern]] in your [[hearts]] and had to be answ

..., for you have need of them no more. The dream of judgment is a children's game, in which the child becomes the father, powerful, but with the little wisdo

...x. It is like an eagerness that a [[gambler]] feels on a lucky streak in a game of [[chance]]. It is like the eagerness that a [[lover]] feels before meeti

...lette to war, by way of lynching parties leaves no place for the authentic game of playing with each moment of daily life. And to love, so inseparable from ...stead of reinforcing the destruction wrought by power, beats it at its own game, excites it to such violence that the machine of the Penal Colony, stabbing

...have the added faith and even trust that propels you to be a player in the game, to be a contributor to the whole. Such a privilege it is that you are easi

...have the added faith and even trust that propels you to be a player in the game, to be a contributor to the whole. Such a privilege it is that you are easi

That is what this game is about, to discover all these parts of yourself, to grow them and nurture

...n’t know and we are not offended by that. It's natural at our stage of the game.

...People are literally doing themselves in and taking themselves out of the game: but what a waste. (Yes) But you are in our love, and we hope to help gui

MERIUM: At that stage of the game, there’s nothing there but potential. And she opted to close out the pot

...er, apply any pressure or make any demands on you whatsoever. I am in this game with you for the long term, for the eternal term, and I have all the patien

...ugh. Think of this as a working database and you will be far ahead of the game that way, as you bring these documents together.

...n. And so, you know the rock is far more secure, change is the name of the game. And I guess that is really the experience. It would have to be either the

...and spends time together in practice (the contact hypothesis). They play a game and win (successful shared valent event). While playing, members exert ener

...my is discovered to have a talent for [[pinball]], and quickly defeats the game's tournament champion. This propels Tommy to international celebrity status

...ces and greater and greater truths. It is my pleasure to observe the great game in play, the great process unfold before my observation. I who have come fr

...al changes that can affect the economy. You see for most of them, the only game on this planet that is worth playing is the acquisition of ever-increasing ...st appear one day and announce whatever it is they want to share? Why this game of hide and seek and hidden time capsules?" Dr. Neruda: "Their motives are

...ul speculator, wise enough to largely withdraw when still way ahead of the game. The bulk of his enormous winnings is now devoted to encouraging transition

[[Game theory]], with its foundations in the theory of [[Rational Choice]], is inc

...the real meditation. If you are doing this, you will be way ahead of the game for, in a way, this is the more advanced stage of what sitting in a formal

...are fortunate enough to survive. Would that you could see how early in the game your earth is.

...e than anything because while I'm waiting for them to line up to get the [[game]] going, I also..these kids really don't understand l00% of what they're su

...innocent of this, and victimized despite your innocence? Whatever way the game of guilt is played, there must be loss. Someone must lose his innocence tha ...you think that one must be unfair to make the other innocent. And in this game do you perceive one purpose for your whole relationship. And this you seek

...o come into familiarity with this new [[reality]]. It is a [[balancing]] [[game]] that you play within yourself. It is within your [[spiritual]] [[mechanis

...ut of Daligastia. Even we, your closest cousins are relatively new at this game and the planetary government overseeing these quarantined worlds.

...d it's just a really calm feeling, He's there. Life is kind of like this [[game]] with all these variables and there is really no possible way of winning i

....wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_roulette Russian roulette], dice, or any other game of [[chance]], but a plan of [[action]] that requires and will achieve rema

* [[High Prophets (Halo)|High Prophets]] of [[Halo (video game series)|Halo]]

...ay. The fact that they make incredible sums of money is simply part of the game, but it's not the reason they sit in the driver's seat of the world's econo

...light switch open, as you keep your field lit, you can bring light to the game. You cannot [[play]] it in the [[darkness]]. It is such a [[joy]] to feel t

...something more to life than just the next big [[movie]] or the next big [[game]] on television, or the next car; that you will find that [[work]] that you

...]] and in constant [[fear]] of [[chance]]—bad luck. Life was an exciting [[game]] of [[chance]]; [[existence]] was a gamble. It is no [[wonder]] that parti

revelations this early in the game. Special precautions had to be taken while serious safe-guards

...any of your brothers and sisters do not do. You are already ahead of the [[game]] so to speak and I believe that all of you [[feel]] inside that you have m

And so, it's a patient and a long game. The circuits have been connected; new circuits have been laid where old ci

...of Monjoronson’s arrival and setting that up. So, I'm kind of new at this game, but I'm an experienced Urantia Book reader, and I've got a lot of experien

.../Australian_Aborigines Australia] are on the march, the women never attack game, while a man would not stoop to dig a root.

...gal food sources (such as fruits, grains, tubers, and mushrooms) with wild game which must be hunted and killed in order to be consumed. It is believed tha

..., but other countries are just as eager to be trend setters in the culture game.” Sarah: “So this is the real end game of the Incunabula? What happened to the greedy elitists you disclosed earli

* The British quiz show ''[[Countdown (game show)|Countdown]]'' has awarded the leather-bound complete version to the [

...o the grotesque. And back and forth they go, as long as you would play the game of children's make-believe. Yet however long you play it, and regardless of

...,” and the “in group” is in charge of who is in and who is out. The video game culture promotes aggressiveness and hostility, and there is a premature end

...word and whispers it to J. (A does this). And now, J, how do you play this game?

...me. Nevertheless, strategy games like [[chess]] and especially [[Go (board game)|Go]], with its simple deterministic rules, can have an extremely large nu

Q: At this [[stage]] of the game in my [[spiritual progress]], would you say that I am more likely to be abl

...on to the next member. See if you can detect our presence. We will make a game of it and have some fun with you. Address your concerns to the Father and a

...You now will rise up above and look down upon as if the game was a child's game and has no more importance, because this is true. (pause) I am Aflana. Would you like to play our game again tonight?

...aves. He practically took over from Aflana. We were ready to play the next game and he just took over. Patije:Like that game that children play with strings...

This is not a [[game]]. Many will be helped by [[this mission]]. [[The planet]] will be helped b

Patije:This is Patije and I see a big beautiful garden and the game begins there. ...ing out of the alligator's teeth and... heard: I think this is part of the game too. Another greeting from Aflana and then "Don't be bashful"

...the daisy hoping to get what you want as an answer. Such a gentle child’s game, yet you must continue to choose, yes or no, all your life. Will you choose ...ture to show up perfectly, with brilliance of detail. This is not a parlor game, however. This puzzle of love is crucial to your future on Urantia. You can

Julie:That's the game I am waiting for. Who plays that game with us? Patije:This is Patije. Is there a teacher here who will play the game with us for each of us to get an impression? (long, long, silence) I hear t

...Congo Civil War, his people were hunted down and eaten as though they were game animals. Both sides of the war regarded them as "subhuman" and some say the

...eited one iota of their brethren to war-like crimes or have they dealt the game of horror that Urantians felt during the period of their world wars in thei

An athlete trains to be strong to face the challenge of the game, the sport, but the athlete knows that even with strength there can be any