1992-10-21-On Praying & Prayer
- 1 Heading
- 2 Facilitators
- 3 Session
Topic: On Praying & Prayer
Group: Indianapolis TeaM
Hello everybody. This is Welmek. I decided to change my introduction and take your advice to loosen up a little. (group laughter) Once again, much has happened during this past week. There have been many new teachers arrive, and they are in training now. Several have gathered here with us tonight to observe, to learn from you and to hopefully receive assignments before long. I wish to take a moment for each of us to receive the spirit and to say a prayer. I will lead you in this prayer.
Creator Michael, sovereign of our local universe, we ask that you receive us in your care, that your love, your desire and your will manifest itself in our daily life. We look to you to find the Father. Lead us, guide us, forever uphold us, that we may one day embrace you. We thank you for all of the opportunity to serve in your universe; and on behalf of the mortals on this planet, we all thank you for living your life here, for showing us all the way to the Father. Glory be our Father and glory be to you.
Each day I encourage you all to pray. Pray to our creator. Ask that you be guided in the way that you know is right. For this evening, we are going to begin somewhat of a new phase, if you will, in our direction. I have asked a member of this group to prepare a brief conversation, if you will, that will stimulate response. This will continue for a while. It is my desire that each of you come to know one another more fully.
I believe this is one good technique that will accomplish this goal. Having said that, last Saturday Steve and I had a conversation. Within that conversation, the idea of prayer was discussed. I now wish to turn this meeting over to Steve, for he will present to you a few of the ideas that we discussed, after which we will open the concept to the floor and begin there.
STEVE: Thank you. When I talked to Welmek on Saturday, I had told him that I thought that when I did pray that it was just saying the words, that there was no feeling there. And as I thought about it over the weekend, I came to the conclusion that I was trying too hard, that it was kind of an all-purpose prayer for everyone I could think of. The ideas that Welmek gave me seem to help, because I've tried them over the weekend and this week, and they seem to work. He suggested that when we pray that we only think of one person or situation at a time for that particular session of our prayer. He mentioned that if we could, we should picture that individual. We should let the feeling of love within us fill us and then think of that individual and what we wish to accomplish for that individual. He also suggested that as we do that that we be as sincere as we possibly can, (I'm reading verbatim here) be specific in your request, be honest in your attempts and as I said, be sincere of heart and of motivation. And if we do this we are again "effective in setting forth a petition that must be answered".
He warned that we think of each individual differently, that we think of each situation differently, that what we wish for the individual that we do it differently. He warned that thinking the same thought, the same idea or the same concept was redundant and once we said it once with sincerity, that it was in the records and it would be acted upon.
He had some suggestions that as we make the petitions for the individuals that we go beyond that and think of the world and situations within the world. He suggested that that's where we direct our thoughts.
Q. I found it very interesting, because I, like you Steve, when I'm praying it's like this long list of, you know, trying to get everybody in, all the people that I care about. That brings it really into more simplicity for me because if I can concentrate on that one person, and I think Mark when you came to the meeting first you said that you felt overwhelmed that there were so many things to pray about, but by him saying that it goes on record, your request or your thought or your prayer for that individual kind of takes you more at ease because then you don't feel that you have to be constantly praying for the same thing over and over again. So it really opens up a lot for me. I think I'll have more effective prayer due to that.
Q. Does that mean that you don't pray for the same person again?
A. If you wish to pray for the same individual again, obviously you may do this. However, if your prayer has been sincere, your motivation true of heart, and your thought clear of mind then you have indeed gone on record. You have made a petition for this individual that some change, some help be added to that person. Once this is done, in time, this petition must be answered. It is really up to the individual as to when they are ready, which determines when the prayer will be answered. However, once you have made record of this, it does not amplify significance or import of the prayer by repeating it over and over. We have, as you say, heard your words and it is so noted. Therefore, spend your time in prayer reflecting upon many people, many situations. There is much help that is needed on your world; and as we have discussed already, effective prayer creates a positive energy which is literally utilized by those of us that are called upon to help answer these prayers.
Q. If we don't know the people that we're praying for help for, say a group of people, maybe political prisoners, would that be sufficient enough to include everyone who is in that group even if we didn't know them specifically? Do we petition to help any or all of them in that particular situation?
A. With the personalities present on the planet right now, I would say yes. Be as specific as you can in your request, even though you may not, as you suggest, know the individual members of such a group. There are enough of us here, there are enough angels and other ministers who may seek this group out and do whatever they can to make effective your request.
A. There are many opportunities for prayer. There are millions and millions of individuals. There are millions and millions of situations that if you stop and think about them, I'm sure they will begin to come to your mind.
Q. Welmek, I forget where it is in the book, but in describing prayer as opposed to say, worship, it talks about prayer as sort of a planning time for the individual. I guess one aspect of prayer is where it's sort of a planning time, sort of when you're talking to the Father about a situation or an individual, you're sort of making a plea to God to help you respond to that person in a way that would be beneficial or more loving. I guess what I'm trying to say is, that in that light, in that sense, when I pray for people that I know, that I have a relationship with, I'm praying not just for them to achieve the direction that they need, but also that I find a way to relate to them in a way that would be beneficial in helping them to achieve that. So in that case is it okay...I keep praying for the same people over and over again.
Q. What I'm trying to say is a lot of times when I pray it's sort of like a conversation with God; and it helps me, I suppose. What I'm asking Him to do when I'm praying for another person in relation to me, I'm asking Him to help me to find a way to understand that person and so that we can relate in a better way, not necessarily so we can get along, but you know, if I want them to come closer to God and I think that there's some way that I can help but I don't have the wisdom or the experience with that person, it's sort of an ongoing dialogue. Like "Well, Father, yesterday we did such and such and I guess I could have said..." you know of along those lines.
A. Now you have hit the distinction. It is important to note what I have said when I referenced situations. Each situation that you find different with one individual, indeed, it does become effective to seek the advice that you talk about. But to say the same prayer, the exact same prayer, over and over and over is my point. You do not need to do this, for we have made note of your request and will act upon it as we can. Therefore you are wise in your perception. You are beginning to fully discern the idea of effective praying. It is more that just requesting help for the individual. It is requesting insight into your relationship and how you may help this individual. You are, in a sense, praying for yourself as well. If each time you pray for this individual it revolves around a different situation, then I encourage you to do this. Do you all feel that you understand the distinction that we are making?
Q. Welmek, what if you just want to, in your prayers and petitions, to just sort of go down the line and say "God bless this person", and really mean it? I mean, you don't think you should say that about them every day?
Q. What if you talk about focusing then on the world? Because then in the end you repeat that, you know what I mean? Like you're praying for babies born with addictions and people who are hungry, need nourishment, and you pray for those things over again. Is that considered the same as what you do for the individual? Once you pray for that, then you can move on? Is it okay to do that time and time again?
A. Again, if you pray for the world, and your example for let's say, starving children, if you generalize your prayer, if you change the nature of your prayer to be more specific or the circumstances change, then you have made a separate request. It is when you make literally the same request that I suggest to you that you are no longer making an effective prayer. But stop and consider what Mary has raised. She has said that in the situation with her friend, with this acquaintance, that there are different situations that arise, for she said "yesterday could I have answered this in response to that...the day before maybe I could have done something differently". As situations change, yes, effective prayer will also be adapted to those situations. This is also in relation to Marva's question about "Will I run out of opportunity to pray? I dare say that with all of those that you encounter each day of your life, as each encounter brings a new situation, you will have no problem in figuring out what to petition, how to not only enhance the life of the one in which you pray for, but also yourself. Do you not see how you will grow as this wisdom comes to you in learning how to deal with another of your brother or sisters? This is effective prayer. Remember the Master said, "When you pray, much will be added to you." This is part of what that means.
Q. Welmek, the question I had specifically about the issue of prayer of being for yourself, it has been my understanding that the purpose of prayer was to change me, not to change God. So I guess where the conflict comes for me is if I were not to pray for someone, does that mean that God wouldn't act favorably on that person just as if He would act if I did pray?
A. You make the statement "the purpose is not to change yourself, but to change God."
Q.. No. It's the other way around. To change himself and not God.
A. How is it that you can change God?
Q. I think it's a rhetorical question.'
A. When you pray, select an individual that you seek help for. Picture if you can that individual in your mind, for this will help you to focus more clearly. Think for a while about that which you really want for this individual. Be as specific as you can. In doing this, it becomes conversational. Think in terms, as I have said, not only about the individual, but also how you can help, if indeed this is possible. Does this help you?
Q. Welmek, sometimes if I pray for someone, and when you talk about specifics, not only do I pray that they have strength and courage to deal with whatever circumstance they're in, but sometimes I also include, for instance, if it's a material problem, in other words lack of money or a place to live or something of that nature, sometimes I feel like that may not be proper. Should you just pray for them to have the strength, courage and guidance to deal with the situation or actually pray to change that situation?
A. You should encourage them to be able to take care of themselves. That is ultimately what your prayer is designed to do. Praying for them to change outside of themselves is not effective. Pray that they receive the wisdom and insight necessary to make their own decisions to effect the change necessary in their own life. When you think of yourself and your association with them, think in terms of what can I do that would help this person gain a better insight into themself?
Q. When I think of what Mary was talking about, I think of that as kind of my counseling session. You know, when I am confused about something, you made the comment before that when we're confused about something we go to our friends, we go to our parents, we talk about all this stuff, and I feel that I've learned to go to my Adjuster, the God that's within me, and so in essence it is a prayer, but also it's more like just a conversation, just knowing that He is within me and that I can really find the answers there because nobody loves me like God does. I know that He will always give me the true answers that I need, and so I think sometimes that is repetitious because you're just talking things out with Him, not necessarily making a request of sorts.
Q. Welmek, I have a question about worship. When I think of worship or when I practice worship, I do so in a way of thanksgiving to God, to the Father. I'm wondering if it would be best to also apply the same philosophy of thanking God for different things daily rather than using the same things over and over.
A. My suggestion to all of you in terms of worship is to learn how to better simply talk to the Father as a good friend. You do not always have to give thanks each and every time unless you find something different to give thanks for. Simply learn within your own mind to talk and to listen. It really doesn't matter so much the content as it does the attempt, for it is the attempt that helps to spiritualize your soul. It is the attempt that helps to lay the groundwork for the spirit fragment to work within the superconscious mind. It is always the attempt that means more, literally, than the words. Does this make sense to you?
A. I would also suggest a difference as far as focusing on prayer and worship. Confine within your mind prayer within the local universe. Prayer is not responded to at this level outside of the local universe. If you pray to the heavenly Father to soothe the pain of another individual, that prayer is automatically redirected; for the Father does not respond directly to prayer as you understand it. Worship the Father. That does literally go outside the local universe. But all prayer is contained and enacted within the universe, our local universe.
Q. Does that mean, then, that prayer should be directed towards Michael?
Q. Welmek, we have a Thought Adjuster that's close by. What's wrong with praying to the Thought Adjuster?
A. If you wish to focus your attention to the spirit fragment in this regard you may do so. However, once again, the spirit fragment is directly related, he is literally tied in to the Father. I would more likely encourage you to worship through this spirit fragment than to pray.
A. First of all, you must understand that the Father is more than just a person. He is more than personality. How is it that the Father knows about you specifically other than through this spirit fragment? It is through this spirit fragment that your identity is made known to Him. It is through this spirit fragment that your worship is literally transmitted, is made known to Him.
A. No, I would say more accurately, as you did, I would conceive of it as a pre-personal entity, a gift of the Father Himself. In time, as you know, this spirit fragment will become personal as you become eternal.
A. It has to do more with the sincerity and the focus of the prayer, in response to your question.
Q. So the more sincerity, the more energy perhaps?
A. What would you say to that question?
Q. I would think it would be, yes.
Q. Yes. I was interested that you started tonight's session with prayer, because I've wondered about bringing prayer and worship into this meeting time, if that would be an effective thing for us to do.
A. While I take the few moments before we begin conversation, as you do, I worship the Father. I do not require anything specific of you. It is your time to do as you wish. I would encourage you all to do the same thing.
Q. Welmek, I'm saying this on a personal level for myself and I'm probably going to get into deep water here...You keep using the word "wisdom" and you're going to get upset with me in this, okay? That just frightens me to death, because every time I've ever prayed for wisdom, I always find myself in a situation that is so difficult to get out of that it takes six months to a year to even get out of it. I learn the wisdom, that's fine; but it's not something that I want to repeat again. So how do we pray on a personal level? Can you give me an example of how you pray for yourself so that we could have an example for ourselves?
A. My prayer for myself consists primarily as follows: I ask that I be given the insight necessary to formulate the idea or response to any situation that requires my attention. It is important that I understand how best to serve the Father, to do His will. In asking this, I literally ask for the wisdom necessary to perform what it is I need to perform. However, you must understand that it takes time for wisdom to become fully realized in our conscious mind, yours and mine. It is not something that is necessarily given. Many times you must go through the trials and tribulations of your daily life before you have learned what it is, the wisdom that you have gained from this situation. But nevertheless, for yourself, what more could you possibly pray for that would really have any real impact on your life, rather than this wisdom or insight?
Q. I don't know, but I know that my life has been difficult enough without adding any more on top of it. And I'm not so sure that I want to add anything else on top of it.
A. What do you mean by "add on top of it"?
Q. Okay. Right now I have a 4-year-old who has medical problems. I have a husband who has medical problems. I have medical problems. I have a son who has, at best, a very vague relationship. I have a daughter who's going down a wrong road, and I have no idea how to get around it. If I take on the world problems plus pray for everybody else in here...okay maybe I want to be selfish and just pray for my own family. Then I don't feel like I need to take on the world's problems or prayers or anything else because we have enough within this group and my own family without adding anything else. I mean, I always feel so burdened and so pressured even though it's only just one time you're asking for, I would feel that would be..I don't know, it's just too much for me.
A. May I ask you a question?
Q. You always do, go for it.
A. How is it that praying for let us say, your president, that he be guided by wisdom, that he be motivated by love, that he use the insight necessary to make the decisions necessary to lead your country in the right direction, how does doing something like that burden your life now?
Q. I don't think it's such a burden, that's not what I thought of because I do keep that one person in my prayers because he needs to lead the country. So that's kind of in my family, as I put it. But you know, you're asking for world problems. All the hungry kids in the world, I mean, we could go for years and just pick one child out or one country, one county of that country, one township, and never get through within a year.
A. Nevertheless do you not realize that all that it takes is a concentrated effort on your part, a sincere heart, to make a petition that this situation be changed and that you have literally added to the cumulative effect, to the cumulative energy necessary to help make this change? If you find that these types of prayers add to the burdens of your life, then obviously I would not ask you to do this. However, if you have listened to what I have said, and discerned my meaning, you will realize that as time goes on, if you pray each day, year after year after year, in the course of your life you will, I believe, find time to literally pray beyond the realm of people that you now know. Do you understand what I mean?
A. An accumulative prayer works inasmuch as when individuals pray for another person or situation, there is as we have discussed, energy generated. It is this energy that helps us to manipulate situations, to encourage individuals to respond in certain ways.
Q. I have to think about that one.
A. It does not necessarily, however, have to be at the same time; but it does have to be sincere and it does have to be well thought out. If you generalize your prayer and say "God help the starving children." that is somewhat uneffective. Try and be as specific as you can. In other words, think like this: "Michael, help those in charge within the United Nations to use the wisdom necessary to get the food and supplies to the starving children of the world. Help protect them from their enemies so that these children may truly benefit from that which they so deservedly and wantingly need." Do you see the difference in what I suggest here? You must, in order to be effective, use your thought, use your reason. Picture this in your mind, and it will help.
Q. I'll give it a whirl.
A. Is there something else yet that you do not understand?
Q. No, I'm fine with it. I'm just going to digest it and go on.
Q. Because that's what it sounds like.
A. Do not look at this as a responsibility, for if you understand effective and sincere prayer, it actually is a privilege and an honor to be able to request within the universe help, love, assistance, for another.
Q. No, I understand that, helping other people. I guess where I've had a problem is really on a personal level, asking for help for myself. I mean, I was taught as a child and all the way up through that praying for yourself is selfish and that God knows what you want and what you need and He'll give it to you without asking. So when we go down and ask, you know, for me to ask for something specific for myself it's very difficult.
A. Remember, as we have discussed, however, for yourself specifically, what is it that we are asking for? What is it that you are asking for? Does not it boil down to your asking for the wisdom or insight necessary for you to live a fuller life, for you to be able to help those that are close to you? This is all that you are asking for. Indeed, it is a fact that the Father knows these things before you. Nevertheless, I encourage you to do this; for this focuses your mind on a specific situation. And I believe if you learn to do this effectively, it will help you in your daily living.
Q. Welmek, I want to touch on something that Marva touched on also. She mentioned that when she prays for wisdom that she is given a challenge to overcome and it takes her a period of time to overcome it, and when she's overcome it she's gained wisdom. Is this typical of how things like this work, or is there other ways, or whatever? Can you help us out in that?
A. If I understand your question, when you pray for wisdom or insight, there are not necessarily challenges, obstacles, put in your path. It is simply an opportunity for you to be able to penetrate through the mind as well as the heart, an insight and understanding as to how to resolve or give advice in any particular situation. It does not necessarily require much action or effort on your part. Does that help you?
Q. Yes. I think that narrows it down somewhat, and at least the question about challenges. To be specific, I think it said in the Urantia Book that some challenges are brought to you to learn certain lessons or is also belief in a lot of religions or at least people are challenged so that they will learn certain lessons, and when they learn that lesson they move on to the next lesson or effort or whatever. Is this the way things work?
Q. Okay. How are these challenges brought to us and why or what....?
A. They are brought to you in a variety of ways, much of which you already know based on your text and what we have discussed. I would suggest to each one here tonight that you never know when you encounter an individual what the full range of circumstances are, especially those people that you have never met before. Always try to do the best that you can, learn to love that individual as best you can. Beyond that I will not comment.
A. If you mean myself, I do not pray for the group before our meeting. I use this opportunity to worship, to give thanks, to direct my thoughts and my feelings toward the heavenly Father. Regarding the group, when I pray for each of you, there is always a particular circumstance that I have in mind. I observe your daily life. I have talked with most of you, both in group as well as in private. I know that you have things which you wish to work out in your life. It is these types of things that I pray for. I pray that you do get the insight, the wisdom, that you have the patience necessary and required, that you learn from your experiences, that you rededicate your will to the Father, and I can go on for some time as far as the different types of things, the different ways that I pray for each of you.
Q. How do you keep that from becoming the same each time?
A. Once again, with each of you, as your lives progress, there are different circumstances that you are faced with, different decisions that you must make. Whenever this happens, and let's take you for an example, with the different things that you and I have discussed already, there are many situations that we have talked about. Within those situations, each time I pray for the guidance, for the wisdom necessary, for me to counsel you in a way that will best help you. I also pray that you gain the wisdom and insight that you may be able to make the decisions necessary for you to make the changes in your life that you seek. Do you see the difference?
Q. So you're saying that you do pray for us as individuals?
Q. Welmek, I have a time during each day when I worship, pray, and try to still my mind. If I take one person and pray for this one person during this time it's going to take a long time to get down the list. Are you saying that maybe we should attune more than one at a time? Let's see. What am I trying to say? In one session or maybe pray more than once a day?
A. I would suggest to you that you do whatever you feel necessary in order to make effective and sincere prayer for those individuals that you wish to pray for. If you feel that your list is long then do as you suggest. Pray for people at the same time or take different times throughout the day. However, I would suggest that again, if you pray effectively, it really does not require that much time. So indeed, you may be able to cover several people in one session. However, I encourage you to think about your prayer, to really focus in on what it is that you are praying for, to try to even picture it in your minds so that you become clear. The direction is clean and clear so that we may be able to help you make this request come to fruition.
Q. Welmek, this is Peter. I wanted to note that it seems as though we're passing quite a concept in our discussion of prayer. Aren't we all being extremely concerned about striving to be selfless, but we're all scared of being selfish, and without budgeting the time and praying for ourselves in order to guide someone don't we need to be selfish in order to have a self to give?
A. I do not perceive that praying makes one selfish. There is nothing wrong with building your self-concept, with developing your soul, with giving time and attention to yourself, especially if you are motivated in the way in which sincere and effective prayer motivate you. There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking time for yourself. If you begin to find yourself praying for yourself in ways that are not effective, I wish for a new car, I want a new home, this becomes selfish and obviously unwarranted. Do you see the distinction?
Q. Yes, I do. Thank you.
Q. Welmek, about effective prayer, my understanding was that in order for my prayer to be effective, I had to take on the feelings of the problem that I was praying for being solved and feel in my heart the way I would feel as if the problem were solved. I'm hearing you say that that's not necessary, that all I have to do is ask with sincerity and the problem will be solved.
A. If you ask with sincerity for the solution to a problem and if your request, your petition is very clear and directed, then you have done what is asked of you. You have also contributed to your own well being. However, it should be noted that if you really do an effective job of praying, many times you literally do project yourself into the situation or you project a feeling that indeed it has been accomplished. There is somewhat of a commonality here as far as seeing yourself within the situation, yet also apart. Do you understand what I mean?
Q. I think I do.
A. Then ask for clarification.
Q. Well....perhaps rather than ask for clarification just try to echo back what I think you said. If I'm having a prayer of supplication that's specific and earnest, then I'm actually projecting myself into that situation, and actually with a multiple fervor, seen it taken a completion and by that token supplication becomes affirmative. Is that what I hear you saying?
A. I perceive what you say and I perceive that this is part of effective prayer. It is not always necessary, however. It is not always necessary to project yourself into the situation, to actually see the end result as you say. What is most important is that you start the ball rolling, that you begin the necessary motion in order to help the outcome. If you see yourself through the situation in conclusion, then this is fine, but it is not always necessary. Thank you.
Q. Welmek, am I correct in understanding what you're saying in this way. Is what you're saying is that prayer, effective prayer, in many respects, is an intellectual exercise and that requires a certain amount of necessary preparation in an order that you can frame the prayer carefully and succinctly in order that it's focused and therefore effective.
A. It is this, but it is more. It is more than just an intellectual exercise. As David suggests, there is feeling involved. When you pray effectively for an individual, you should also feel love within yourself. You should feel the love of the Father flow through you and literally project this love out along with the thought itself. In combination, it truly makes it most effective, but you ascertain much of what I have said as far as formalizing your concept first. As far as being succinct, do not become too concerned with this, for prayer is many times a conversation. Be relaxed about prayer. Be informal, but yet be clear of mind. Be focused of thought.
Q. Welmek, I have a question. I have a problem sometimes with prayer because I feel that if I ask for something too specific, say relief in a specific situation of pain or a problem that this particular person is undergoing, that I don't know myself if that is a situation that has been put into their life or a reason that it is really the Will of the Father, or their guardians, or whatever that they are in this situation at that time. So I find myself getting more, instead of becoming more specific, I find myself becoming more general, and I'm a little confused on what to do here.
Q. No. Not in that sense, but we are told in the book that we are, or situations are arranged, or we are introduced into difficult situations, so that we may learn something. If I am praying specifically for an individual to be taken from that situation, I may be praying for something the opposite of what was intended by their spiritual guide or whatever.
A. Are you praying for the individual to be taken from the situation or are you praying that the individual gain the wisdom and insight necessary to make the decisions, to work through the difficult situation and thereby gain wisdom?
Q. Usually the latter because that's what I'm come down to figuring out.
A. Always the latter.
A. Indeed. For if the situation has been pre-arranged, if you will, praying that they simply be eliminated from it without the person's understanding, without them gaining the insight and wisdom, is not going to work. Your attempt is noted, your motivation is appreciated, but it will not be effective prayer.
Q. Question I was going to have (??) when two people pray for the same person but pray for opposite results?
A. For the most part.
Q. One of the things that strikes me is that while in worship it is necessary to sort of set aside some time because you need some release from the distractions of all the stimuli around us. We need that time to seek the stillness and so on but it's sort of like a time for prayer. I hear these people say, "I have to cover all these people in these situations, squeeze all this time in." It seems to me that we ought to become more spontaneous with both our prayer and our worship. It seems to me one of the best times to pray would be right after you have an encounter with an individual. It's fresh in your mind and as you depart company with that individual, you have a sense of what it is you hope that person would come to understand, and as you're simply walking away or driving home, you can pray at any point when you have just a little quietness in mind. And if you're going along and you see something beautiful or if you just had a very positive interchange with someone, you can thank the Father for that particular opportunity which, in a sense, is a form a worship. That's something that it seems to me that we should try to develop that ability to think of prayer and worship throughout the day and not just block in certain times each day.
Q. I've got question. I was listening to the news, and this woman had a kidney disease and she said that it was cured by prayer. There's a friend that has cancer..and so if you pray that a person who has a specific illness or disease that could end their life..are prayers answered like that? You know, if you pray for that can cancer be cured? Or should you be praying more for the person to be guided and to find God's love, to spiritually help them that way as opposed to get rid of the cancer. And if you can end diseases like that, by prayer, wouldn't there be a lot more people not dying? You know what I mean?
A. I understand. To pray for a cure of a disease will not, usually, be effective. It is more complex than that as far as the utilization of these energies. But you are correct in what you say to pray for the individual, that they may, once again, gain a better understanding of what it is that ails them and seek out alternative remedies, alternative sources of healing. There is much, as we discussed last week, that is unknown on your planet in this matter; and much of the problems that you encounter on the health level could be resolved if your people better knew how to manipulate and identify these energies.
Q. Welmek, there is a not-so-uncommon attitude or philosophy that I've encountered among many people; and it says that any illness or malady that a person has, somehow has been brought to that person by themselves, through their own inner thoughts or their own lack of something. But basically, the teaching is that whatever illness a person has, they have somehow brought that on themselves. Would you address that particular attitude or teaching?
A. It is true sometimes.
Q. Can you elaborate?
A. What else would you have me say? There are times that disease or illness is transmitted by means other than mortal thought. Therefore, disease comes from both the mind as well as outside the body. Is there another part of your question?
Q. I'm trying to think in my own mind, I guess I think that the idea of a malady, like a cancer or something, and I know there's limits to understanding what humans say or what the true cause of these things is, but it's hard for me to imagine in my own mind a person wishing cancer upon themselves. Yet on the other hand, I can say well, perhaps it was their own, in some sense, maybe their own habits of living, diets, smoking, things of that nature which could have also contributed to that, so I guess I'm wrestling in my own mind and trying to think of where is that line drawn somehow.
A. In reference to let's say, smoking, indeed, which comes first, the thought or desire to smoke or the cancer? In this case, obviously the desire to smoke comes first. However, that desire, in and of itself, did not create the cancer. It is the smoke that creates the cancer. That desire can be overcome, and you can quit smoking and therefore not have cancer. To say that all disease is generated within the mind and transmitted to the body is not accurate. There are times which it is, but there are times which it is not. Your science must learn how to first treat the mind and work through the body. But it must also do the reverse. It must at times help the body to relieve the disease, to release the mind.
Q. Welmek, my husband has epilepsy, if I embarrass him here, sorry. But he has epilepsy; therefore, it's not transmitted from the body, it's not genetic. He has no idea why he has it. So you're telling me and you're telling the rest of us that if I pray for the nerve endings, or the electricity that's running through his body to go its right way, that that will be granted?
A. No, I am not saying that at all.
A. As I have said, it does not really affect the wellness of an individual simply to pray. It is more complex than that. What I encourage you to do is to seek alternative forms of treatment from that which you have already sought to see if indeed this physical problem can be remedied or lessened in his earthly life. You must accept the fact that there are situations that cannot be helped. They are beyond our ability to really help, unless, of course, someone like Michael wishes it to be changed. Does that answer your question?
Q. Well, we've been through all the testing that they can do so we've learned to cope with it.
A. Who is "they"?
Q. The doctors at IU hospital.
A. Are there not perhaps other alternatives?
Q. I wouldn't know of any, Welmek.
A. There is the answer to your question of effective prayer. Pray for the insight, pray for the wisdom, pray that somehow you may be led to alternative sources. You may find that you are in amazement as to what may come in response to your prayers.
Q. Welmek, a couple questions. On the discussion of disease, there are many diseases that are brought on either through behavior (tape turned, words lost) and some diseases might appear out of nowhere. Disregarding the behavioral or situational ones, what about diseases that seem, at least as far as we know, to appear out of nowhere. Are those kind of diseases ones that are brought on to teach lessons by whatever powers that may be or just chance, or...?
A. Absolutely not. Would there ever be a situation where I, an angel, or any other spirit personality would ever inflict any type of disease within your physical mechanism to help you learn a lesson? This is purely a part of living in the material world, as you experience it. I am glad that you asked this specific question. We have, as one said, danced around it, somewhat; it is important for you to note this. The Father does not inflict disease to teach. Would you do the same for your child, if there was a lesson you wanted this child to know? Are there not other methods that could be employed that would be more healthful, more beneficial, than to strike one down with polio or emphysema, or as you know, the list goes on and on. It is not so in reality, it is not so in the universe. Please do yourselves a favor. If you entertain seriously this idea, eliminate it from your reservoir of good thought.
Q. I have another question also which goes beyond disease. When a person passes on, obviously it's a very hard time for those that remain to survive that loss; and those people should be prayed for that they have the wisdom and insight to recover from that loss. But I wonder about praying for the departed person. Is there effective prayer for that person, or is it..what's the situation for that? Should they be praying for us? (laughter)
A. And they do. (more laughter) Once, of course, they have been resurrected. For they understand more fully the nature of prayer and how it can help you. To pray for one who has passed through the portal of death, simply look at it as this: Ask that they be reunited with their spirit fragment, that they have the opportunity to make the eternity choice. Beyond that, there is really little effective prayer that you can make for one in this state.
Q. In the same vein, you were talking about illness isn't anything that God inflicts upon anybody, it's just something that happens in this life on this planet in this material world, is it the same thing with death? My mom, one time when we were little, said that when someone dies that God takes them. And when someone dies, people become very angry and say "Why did God do this?" They blame Him for deaths. And there was a minister I listened to on TV who said God didn't make people die, but he said it was the devil that made people die. I wondered about that for a long time.
A. Does God's knowing when you will die mean the same as He takes you?
Q. No, I don't think so.
Q. Is it true that, say you have two people with the same illness, and one person is full of faith and optimism and doesn't give up, and the other person does and loses all faith, is it safe to say that that person may contribute to his own death and illness where the other person is not giving into it?
A. One contributes to life. The other contributes to death. Is that what you are asking?
A. Obviously the answer to that is yes. And it goes beyond just the physical health realm. It goes to the mere core of your own soul. The more positive you look at life, the more aggressive you become in seeking the Father's will, you will literally benefit on all levels of existence. The more you become downtrodden by life, the more you become involved in these so-called "pity parties" (laughter), the more you de-energize, you de-vitalize yourself. It is truly amazing to me how you can allow yourself to get in this so-called rut and not see what it is you are doing to yourself. I am working on understanding this about the human nature. I will also do my best to help each one of you, if you seek it, to help you come out of this time so that you may enter the light of the Father and begin your journey toward happiness, toward love and toward self-fulfillment.
Q. There was a man on a television program that I watched this week, and he had Lou Gehrig's disease. He made a statement that pain and sacrifice are a part of this life, but that misery is optional. I thought that was very intriguing because we do, it is really a matter of how we perceive it and what we do with what we have. We can choose to be miserable or we can choose to be positive; and I really got a lot from seeing this man so ill making this statement.
A. I would ask each of you to consider this. Try to picture, as well as feel for a moment, our Master being stretched across the cross- beam and having nails literally driven through the flesh. How do you think this would make you feel? It's obviously an overwhelming concept. Yet he handled this situation better than any being I can possibly imagine. He, as you say, decided not to look at life as a journey in misery, but as a challenge, as an opportunity to serve his Father and to lead his children to him and the Father. So it is with all of you. Do not take the cross and conceive of it as misery. Take the cross of Christ and conceive of it as an opportunity to share love and happiness. For do you not all agree this is the life of Jesus?
Q. Welmek, many of us, I'm sure are benefitted by prayers from others that we don't even realize. At some point of our universe career, will we be able to show our gratitude to these people? Will it be known to us that this person has prayed for us and has helped us?
Q. Along that line, in my own reckoning, somewhere in the text when it talks about praying for others, I believe it suggests that you should let that person know that you're praying for them. If that's correct, could you elaborate on that and the reasons why that might be important?
A. It's important for several reasons. I believe the most obvious is are you not grateful when you know that someone is truly trying to help you, is thinking of you, and wants what's best for you? Does it not give you a good feeling. Therefore, in that regard, yes, it does help for them to know. However, many times you feel awkward in walking up to an individual and saying "Hey, I pray for you." (laughter) So rather than telling them that you are praying for them, tell them that you think about them. Tell them that you love them. Tell them that you would do anything that you could to help them if they would only let you know. Do you see the subtle difference here?
A. You do not put them on the defensive, necessarily, by the word "prayer". I have a question for you, as a group. Earlier, the question was raised, in church, when the prayers are said over and over and over, are they more or less ineffective. I responded "yes". How does that make you feel?
Q. Go for it, Gin
Q. It kind of makes me feel like..well, I went to a Catholic school, and Catholic grade school and a Catholic junior high school. Now we had to go to church every week as part of the school program, and it makes me feel that it was almost wasted, that we went through all these prayers, and if they had already been said once, then what was the point of saying them again. I just feel that it was wasted.
Q. I think it's sad.
Q. Welmek, isn't part of it having to do with the sincerity though? It may not be that what's being verbalized is not okay to say again, just like I feel I can read from the Book of Psalms, and as a child I think I did and got a lot..felt a lot through that and felt a lot of sincerity. I think that may be part of the key whenever we do things routinely and rotely that we are less affected. /
Q. I guess if you pray for something repetitiously, even though the prayer might not benefit what you are praying for or who you are praying for, in could still, in fact, benefit you and your spirituality.
Q. I was going to say, you know when people are gathered to worship and pray, even though those prayers may be the same prayers, still I feel that the presence of Christ is there because the people have all gathered together and the energy is still there even though maybe the prayers themselves..and maybe it's the motivation and sincerity that matter the most.
Q. Sometimes, though, and I'm thinking specifically of the Lord's Prayer, that if people pray in every church every week in one situation or another, it almost becomes less of a prayer and more of a focus and worship for the group. When I have prayed the Lord's Prayer in the past and got tired of repeating the same words again, I tried to deal with emphasis on certain aspects of prayer as far as my relationships with other people to sort of spice up the Lord's Prayer, so to speak, not really to spice it up but to spice up the attention or the focus I have on some of the words and how they apply.
A. To make it personal.
Q. And I mean the trespasses can always be different.
Q. Aren't there certain prayers, though, that energize the energy fields in our system that increases the healing energy?
A. No. It is more of your attitude. It has to do with your motivation and your focus. The words themselves, as I have said, do not mean that much. It is more your attempt, it is more your motivation, that sets the stage.
A. Yes. However, if you say this Lord's Prayer over and over and over again, then does not it, as a rule, tend to become less and less personal? Effective prayer is very personal. It is very directed. It is very motivated. This is the distinction that I'm trying to make. When people in church say the same prayers over and over, the Father does not love them less. Do not perceive this in any way whatsoever, for He recognizes their attempt. He recognizes their love and their motivation. But it is my perception that He would wish each one of these individuals to think more about Him and their relationship with Him. Religion is a personal experience. While you share commonality, it is your relationship with the Creator which is unique and not exactly like anyone else's relationship. Do you understand the meaning of what I am trying to say? When you say that you are disappointed, what do you mean by that?
Q. Well, for me, I think about my father who has said the rosary every day of his life for 35 years, who goes to mass every morning, says the same prayers every morning; and it makes me feel sad that maybe those haven't..those have been in vain.
A. Again, the prayer itself may not be effective; but the attitude of your father is what counts. Therefore, it is not in vain. His faith is as best as he can achieve, as he can understand at this point. My point to you and to your father would be simply to change the words, to change the thought, to change the focus, so that each day you stand humble before the Father in worship, or humble before the Creator Son in prayer, and ask for whatever it is. Ask in prayer or give thanks and communion in your worship.
Q. But you know, so many people are caught up in the tradition of what they've been taught. And for them thinking of changing the prayer..I mean, I know from my parents, they have a prayer of all these different saints. That's what they say. For them that's their prayer. My mother has booklets and all these things. For every circumstance, here's another saint.
A. If this brings them closer to the Father, then it is good. If their prayer is effective, then it can be responded to. If neither one of these are achieved, then they will more than likely await resurrection on the mansion worlds and then begin to understand the real nature of prayer and how to use it.
Q. It seems to me, Welmek, that one of the main problems that we have here is that, prayer, as with all things,..we should be constantly learning and constantly growing. It should be an evolutionary process. We come into the churches and we may experience a heightened feeling of reverence or other things that contribute to our personal inner religious experience; and that's positive for a while. But yet when we stay, and we go through the repetition and so on, I think what we're really realizing inside is that the churches, the leadership of these churches, don't really know how to take us any further than that. It's sort of like a young child. They've taught you up to this point, but they don't really know how to take you any further. So for the individual to progress, it's almost as if they must reach beyond or outside the churches to the many other things that are out there to try to learn better ways to continue to progress.
A. I would even suggest that it is not in the churches' best interest to teach you how to effectively pray. If humans were to become truly free, then the authority contained within the church would become meaningless, as your church exists in its present state.
A. If the attitude is positive, if the person believes within their mind and heart that it brings them closer to the Father, then I suggest to you that it does literally do that. Baptism in and of itself is not required. The ritual of baptism is only symbolic. It is the human's thought, it is their heart that makes the realness of the ritual become effective in spiritual growth.
A. If the child is very young, it does not do anything for the child.
Q. But it does help the parents to focus or use that ritual as scaffolding so that they can gain or seek spiritual insight and grow. So in that sense, it's effective, even though it's really not necessary.
Q. Because I have decided to have my children baptized, I was thinking of it as, I guess, myself proclaiming that I intend to raise my children in a Christian atmosphere. As I said, it was like David and I made the commitment to each other for life before we ever went and made those marriage vows, and so that was just almost like a proclaiming that we were going to be together. But the commitment was already there, so in essence that's what I'm kind of looking at this as, just a proclaiming that I am committed to do this for my children.
Q. Welmek, when we went out to Pocatello and I asked Daniel the same question about [baptism], and I pray I get this right because I heard it again today and I'm not sure that I can repeat it correctly, it's my understanding from what Daniel says that baptism is not necessary at all, that Christ fulfilled John's prophecy, that he went along with that to fulfill John's prophecy and that none of us need baptizing because all of us have the ability to seek the Father and to grow ourselves without having baptism recorded somewhere.
A. This is correct.
Q. Don't need it to get in the gate then.
A. But again, if it does bring any member closer to the Father, then it is good. In reference to this you must understand that most of the leadership is motivated well. They do want you to know the Father, to be saved; yet, nevertheless, they tend to be dictators. They tend to teach you how to do everything in relationship to your personal experience with the Father. You must accept this sacrament, you must confess your sins, you must do this and you must do that. They tend to then lead you in your religious living in a way that is not personal, in a way that is not individual. This is where I am suggesting to you the churches of your day and age must make a change. Church should be the place where people gather and share true religious experiences, a socialization process of religious experience, if you will, rather than the time that you spend listening to the priest or the minister counsel you briefly what is in the Bible and then following through with whatever rituals. However, it should be noted that if this experience does enlighten your mind, if you see past the rituals and the dogma of the church and see the real meaning of Christ within this church, then continue your practices. I am not suggesting that you abandon your church life, only that you realize what it is and that your relationship with the Father goes far beyond what you experience in church itself.
A. Some people, yes. I would say even most. Yet many people find it very comfortable to have another take responsibility for their religious growth. They simply are waiting. They have stopped, for the most part, their real spiritual growth. This is fine, in one sense, for upon death and resurrection they will then be given the new insight. The problem with this is it retards your evolutionary growth. It makes it difficult for myself, for your spirit fragment, to really be able to effectively communicate and help motivate you to do that which you know is of the higher and more righteous way.
Q. Welmek, when Michael was incarnate on this planet, it seems like the synagogues were not able to make a transition. And I guess all of us that have been parts of churches at times struggle probably with wondering will our churches be able to make that evolution, or is it really going to be a development of a parallel system, a parallel process of worship and prayer that we're maybe part of.
A. Your question should be directed to the Angels of the Churches. They are very aggressive. They are very motivated in this area; and I can assure you that in time your churches will not even resemble what they do now. All will work according to the plan that the Father and Michael have set forth. It is a matter of time.
Q. And patience.
A. Which brings me to the next subject. (laughter) Next meeting our topic will be patience and impatience. I believe this too will generate much conversation, for this is a monumental concept and problem. Of course, I am assuming that the individual who will make this presentation will be ready.
Q. Me, neither.
A. Only relative inasmuch as you must understand we cannot control everything. There are, as we have discussed before, accidents that do occur. They are unfortunate, but nevertheless part of your existence. Again, I perceive the most effective prayer being that which is focused on an individual to help them gain the insight, the ability to make the decisions necessary to overcome the difficulties that they face, to seek the will of the Father and to attune themselves to the spirit fragment.
A. Not quite as of the nature of yours. There were, however, times when accidents do occur. We in my civilization were much more controlled in a sense. In one way I will share with you, in transportation. There were no running of red lights. However, my daughter once did fall from a chair and broke her arm. These things do happen.
Q. Welmek, I have a question. When you pray, should you always pray to Jesus or your Father fragment; or can it be specific? You've already answered this to some extent, it helped me to focus. But for instance, is it all right if you pray to your angels? And if you're in a tight spot and you say "Will you help me get out of this?" and you can see where they do, is that considered prayer?
A. Yes, in a sense. However, my best advice to you is when you pray, to pray to Michael. Allow us to direct the prayer, if it is inappropriate to be directed to him. For it would be impossible for you to know each situation, which one might be involved in directing this prayer. Rest assured that if your prayers are sincere and effective, they are made of record and will be acted upon in time.
WELMEK: I perceive within this group this evening, there is still some confusion, some questions about sincere and effective prayer. We have covered much territory; yet it has left some feeling somewhat inaccurate, or inadequate, I should say, about how to pray effectively. Let us do this. Next week you will receive your written transcript. I would ask you to read it carefully, to make notes; in the week following, we will then entertain questions of clarification.
A. Both. Not everyone fuses.
Q. What was the life span of your planet, the average?
You have this propensity to draw me into these questions. (more
Q. We're curious creatures. We like to know a lot about you.
A. I understand, but you do not understand the restrictions that I am under. I would say that I am one, believe it or not, who at times, "straddles the line"? I have been reprimanded more than once. (laughter) A reprimand to me by my superiors, by my teachers, however, is not like what you would conceive as a reprimand. It is done out of love. It is done with great wisdom; and I always learn from these situations. I am eager for you to know much, but yet I am restricted. It is a difficult situation at best.
Q. Why don't they want us to know about specifics?
A. It is not so much that it will inhibit it, as it does not add anything to it. At what point would I stop with these human curiosity questions? The more that I answer, the more you ask. Is this not so?
A. You must allow me to make that assessment. There are times when I do not answer your questions, that you feel that I withhold information unjustly. I would ask you to really think of the importance of the question you have asked relative to what my mission is. Try to be understanding and patient.
Q. Welmek, a lot of us think of you as an intellect. And in a personal session you become very personal and you liven up a little. (laughter) No, liven up's a good word for it. In teaching here, you act like, and I don't mean to offend you, okay?, but you act like this staunch professor most of the time except tonight when you laughed and you cut up. And that makes us..I don't know, I accept you more as that. And the more that I know, like the story of your daughter falling off the chair and breaking her arm, it's personal to me. It makes me feel like, closer, more human. At least I understand that you've had some of the same experiences that we have here and that you do understand. Because half of the time you tell us, "I do not understand the pain that you're going through, I do not understand the suffering that you're going through" so sometimes it's like why ask, he doesn't understand anyway. And then when you come up with the answers when we ask these strange questions, we ask you to shed a little light then we become closer to you and accept more of what you say and are able to filter out..I don't know what else I want to say, excuse me. I feel closer to you when you say those things.
A. Once again, I would say that it would require much time and would de-focus us from what our real purpose is in these meetings. As a group, we only have a few moments to spend together. It is important to talk about those things relative to your spiritual progress rather than your curiosity. I am learning more. You all have great expectations of me, and I try to live up to these. I am not perfect by any stretch of your imagination. I learn with each encounter that I have with you, both as a group and as individuals. You must realize this about me. I do my best, but I, too, make mistakes. I am an experiential being just as you are.
Q. Well, we want you to know, Welmek, that you're very personal to us; and you're more than our teacher, and I'm sure I'm speaking for other people, you're more like our friend and our brother. We all look forward a whole lot to being with you. It's not just the things that you impart but your personality and the way you lend yourself to us when you teach to us that means so much to us.
Q. The way you love us.
Q. Yeah. We know that you love us and it shows and we love you back.
Q. We feel it.
Q. We appreciate you.
Q. Welmek, we have a Saturday night social time for us to get to know each other better. Maybe you should come to one of our socials and we could get to know you better in other than a teaching situation.
A. The purpose for your socials is to get to know yourselves better. I, you must understand, am desirous to a certain extent to maintain a distance. I do not wish for any of you to become totally or even partially dependent on me. What would happen if I were called away from this planet to do another assignment? How would you feel? What would happen if I became too close to you? How would I feel?
I love you all very much and I know that you love me. But nevertheless, we are individuals; we each have our own assignments. I cannot, and I am not permitted, to become too close, too personal, so that you become more reliant on me in the decisions that you make. Do you understand this?
Q. Yes we do, but unfortunately, that is what friends are for.
A. We are friends, this is true; but my goal is to help each one of you become stronger within yourself. In doing this, it is human nature to become more reliant on someone such as myself to make your decisions for you. I must always be aware of this fact and do what I feel is appropriate at the time. I doubt, for the most part, that I would speak at one of your social weekends. But then, you never know. (laughter)
Q. You are there, watching us, aren't you?
A. I spend much time with you, yes.
A. Thank you.
Q. If I recall right, at the system level, at the capital at Jerusem and so on, it takes about three of our days to equal one of those days. Do you in your existence operate more on that time; and if that were true, while these meetings for us happen once every 6 to 7 days, that would mean in your sense of time these meetings are occurring almost every other day. Is there any basis of fact or truth in that?
A. What I will say is that my plate is full. It seems as though this is an effective way to teach, to be able to relate to you in terms that you understand. I am learning more of these concepts all the time.
Also, remember what I have told you. You must, at times, read between the lines. This is why it is important for you to read these transcripts, take notes and ask questions of clarification. This is not happening much yet. I encourage you to be more active in this regard. You may be surprised what you learn. Just as your text, there are levels of understanding, based on your experiential realization. So it is, as what you witnessed tonight.
It is time to adjourn this meeting. I wish all of you the best. I will be with you throughout the week. Look forward to next week, and be patient. Go in peace and remember, our Father does love you all very much.
GROUP: Goodnight, Welmek.