1987-09-17-Incantations, Premonitions

From Nordan Symposia
Jump to navigationJump to search


Teaching buddha small.jpg


Topic: Incantations, Premonitions

Group: New Zealand TeaM


Teacher: Abraham

TR: Babs



Charlemont Opening prayer

Teacher: I am Abraham. I am your Teacher. I await your queries.



Tommas: I have been thinking about last weeks' discussion on prayer and thought and I was wondering how prayers were sorted out from everyday thoughts that are flying around from the millions of people, whether they are channelled through our guide or what

Teacher: Yes, it is all vibration.

"And prayers are sorted out from the everyday thought vibrations

Teacher: The vibration of prayer is differing to thought.

Charlemont I would like to query our opening prayer to you, which we have discussed sometime ago. My understanding is the vibration of the words in some way clears the airwave that we may approach you, but can you tell me, from the other end the use of a prayer, In the early days we were told or we felt, if we did not pray, we could receive a disturbed spirit, and pray was a way of alleviating that danger, can you elaborate more on this for me?

Teacher: Yes. Again I say, it is all vibration. In protecting yourself such as this you are raising the vibratory levels, yes.

"I've always felt personally prayer was not necessary and you have once agreed with me.

Teacher: Correct.

"After watching some of our television programmes on Islamic faiths and others and seeing some of the chants, rituals and things done it strengthens my view, and I wonder why the prayer is necessary, but I understand what you are saying about the vibrations.

Teacher: I say this, incantations are not prayer,

Selina And that's what they were doing on that programme, they were repeating the same words over and over continually,

Teacher: This builds a vibration in a differing manner blocking out consciousness, sub-consciousness, higher consciousness..

Charlemont A lot of our religions produce prayers in our churches where it becomes a parrot form of worship, something that is said every week without feeling or meaning.

Teacher: Refer to my words on prayer from our last appointment, to Tommas: 's query

Tommas: As a meditative thought you mean?

Teacher: Correct. This differs much from merely parrot, yes and differs greatly from incantation. You are understanding

Charlemont Not fully on all I am thinking about. I understand what you are saying, in answer to my query; I haven’t queried fully enough for myself yet. I wonder if we, in this room were to study a colour, like a flame for example, would the same vibrations be reached as a person reading a prayer? If it enhanced the thought of every member in the room, pureness through colour?

Teacher: Possible. But you see, as you say the words, they are thought by those present, if colour is received, it is received according to the individual,

Selina So we would all hear the same, but we may not all see the same.

Tommas: I use the opening prayer, and I say one line, and let it sink in, and I try to imagine myself trying to project that thought out, then go onto the next line.

Teacher: Yes.

Selina On the subject of prayers, at some time during the evening or at the end of the evening, could you say a few words on the tape that I could type out, as I'd like to pray for Ishmael, but I want to be able to say the right things

Teacher: I shall think on this.

"Thank you

Teacher: I shall not give my decision at this moment.

Korde That prayer that Charlemont says at the beginning of the meeting, when I was going on the aircraft to Scotland, my Mother handed me a piece of paper, and said, that was something to read if I needed comfort, and when I opened it up on the 'plane, it was the opening prayer. I just couldn’t believe it.

Teacher: Yes.

Charlemont I have been saying this prayer for three years, and I still cannot remember it, to say it, without reading, and that's disturbed me until just now, when I realised when Tommas: was talking about it to me that I think, by having to read it, I don't parrot fashion it, it means more to me to read it.

Petta That's like me with the Lord's Prayer, I sometimes get way through, because I realise I have not been listening to it myself.

Korde Yes I was like a child, she knows my prayer.


Dominica I know that when we dream nonsense dreams it is the mind amusing itself, but I was wondering; about when we dream the dreams that actually come true, the premonitions, how do they occur, and why?

Teacher: You do not understand this from the teachings?

"No, not really. I don't see how you can dream something and then it actually happens.

Teacher: You have gone before,

Selina You have astral traveled and when you come back, you then know it is going to happen at some stage, when it does, you recall the memory of it from before.

Teacher: Also, you must realise there are occurrences in a life journey which are not destined to have some deeper explanation.

"Abraham, have I ever reached the stillness

Teacher: If you have, you would know. Do not query myself.

Long pause

Teacher: You have no queries

I have much patience

Charlemont The seed that we were from the beginning, the physical side of that, has there been any change in the actual physical man once he had developed with two arms two legs etc has mankind always been the same structure, we have heard of the one eyed beings and things of this nature.

Teacher: You are speaking of the myth?

"Yes, I was actually thinking more of the future of mankind, whether we will develop or not develop certain parts of ourselves, mental telepathy we believe should be used more as it was in the past.

Teacher: It is dependant on the desires of humankind just as your receiving of lessons is dependant on your desire for query.

"In recent history that we know of, humankind has also grown taller or slender owing to foods and other things

Tommas: . A different way of life would affect that as well, life styles change over the centuries.

Teacher: There is a natural redevelopment of the physical body caused by such as you have described. There is a development of the mental also dependant on the desires of humankind.

The part which is un-developed is understanding. If you explore understanding you shall understand the answer to all queries.

Petta Is there anyway we can avoid getting Alzheimer’s disease

Teacher: It is for some the process of aging.

"So there is nothing we could be feeding our bodies with

Teacher: Correct.

Teacher: . ...........

Teacher: You are much silent.

Tommas: When meditating to find the stillness and the calm, normally I presume it is done in our own homes. Is the feeling of peace and calm you could get just by sitting at a place in the country, overlooking; a view, a lake, river, somewhere serene & peaceful, give you the same effect

Teacher: Much similarity.

"And you could still find the stillness that way?

Teacher: If you wish.

Bryoni I have been hearing and reading a lot about relationships and how we get a relationship at that particular time that we need for us to learn, etc etc I've met a lady, probably one of the kindest people I could meet & yet she was in a disastrous relationship with a man who is an alcoholic and it makes me wonder about relationships.

Teacher: One moment. Yes, in this particular relationship you speak, kindness is perhaps the lesson. Kindness for self.

Charlemont A lady I was speaking to today, was showing a great interest in our lessons, and she is now reading the small black book, and she has been bombarding me with so many questions and I found a lot I couldn’t answer because, and I feel I know where you are coming from, because she needs to know the preliminaries before the advanced questions and it would be like putting the cart before the horse to answer in an immediate way and it's very frustrating and I think we here are round the other way, we are stuck to know what to ask next.

Tommas: Well we have read that book and some others so a lot of queries we could have asked we had already read the answers to.

Teacher: So you do not have knowledge of that which you are seeking. You have found all there is

"Obviously no.

Petta All perhaps that we are capable of thinking at this stage.

Teacher: All you are thinking, you are capable of finding do not limit yourself.

I do not come to speak to silence, I come to speak to queries, to your minds, your hearts, your souls.

You do not come to listen, you should come to listen with your minds, your hearts, your souls, while you consider this, you shall take refreshment, I shall return,


Teacher: I shall say this, if you are thirsty and there is water to hand, do not wait to be offered refreshment. So it is with our teachings. You see, you are only floating in the surface of your understanding, your minds are locked into the physical world.

Charlemont We have made a decision Abraham, that you might be aware of, with picking a subject and trying to delve into that as deep as we possibly can, either by discussing amongst ourselves with you listening or directly to you and hope you may add to our understanding of this subject, so that when the evening is finished we may have got some depth into one or more subjects.


Teacher: Have I not said before times, your discussions are welcome.

Well there has been a subject broached this evening which I think should have oceans of depth to it and that's the subject of relationships.

Teacher: Then discuss. I shall observe.

"The query was to do with the relationship of two persons one being a kind thoughtful person and one not so kind or so thoughtful, which has been covered at other periods of time by other subjects but it's something we can start with. The fairness of this as a lesson.

Teacher: What is fairness? To you it is one thing, to another it is something different etc etc, so discuss,

Tm. Somebody living in a situation like that has the choice of staying in that situation & putting up with everything or not.

Teacher: Free will.

Ch.Some stay and it's their sacrifice which Abraham says is wrong.

Md.They stay for security.

Something is better than nothing.

Tm Make the time away from that place as enjoyable as possible to balance it out.

Ch.Some people seem to enjoy baiting their partner.

By. Patterns are repeated with children from broken homes having their own home and family life broken years later.

.It is a learned behaviour.

Tm My children have been brought up with 2 warnings then a smack if they do wrong a third time. I tried always to be consistent. They knew the rules they knew the punishment if they broke them and that was their choice.

Ch I’d: look at it from my point of view, would I expect a smack if I'd done that, yes, right then I'd dish out a suitable punishment,

Ml.In other words change yourself, and change the situation that way.

Ch, I’d judge it from how I'd feel about it, if I'd done it.

Sl.You'd judge it from THEIR point of view first.

Ch.Yes, so now I find it very easy relating to people, I enjoy relating to people.

Tm.I've never found it easy, as I've always been a bit on the shy side, though not so bad lately.

Ch,Some people fear animals and the animal picks up that vibration so humans can pick up the vibration from another human in the same way. And it could be important to give off a good vibration when you are meeting people, especially if you work in a shop as a lot of us do, and you are trying to sell them something.

Pt.It's hard to give off good vibrations to somebody that you are getting bad vibrations from, your hackles go up

Teacher: So, what is your relationship to Abraham, to Abraham teaching?

Pt. As a pupil, rather in awe.

Why so

Pt.Because you are so learned I wish that I could tap your learning more, but I cannot find the way in which to ask you the questions.

.The AWE, is your brick wall

Ml.You mean respect.

Pt,Yes, that's a much better word, thank you Melda.

Teacher: These feelings are understood, but I repeat, they are your brick wall. Do not allow them to become so,

Ch.I have felt with Abraham, anger, frustration, beauty, love all the emotions I can think of whilst in his presence and I don’t regret any one of them,

Teacher: And so you should not, when we meet, we should meet yourselves as whole personalities. Do not show Abraham your respect only. You see, in this manner, you are closing from yourself, the other. And you are walking a narrow pathway indeed. Think of these words. I have said before times, FEAR is restrictive, yes? And so to, are other feelings if allowed to be ruling they become restrictive. You may discuss this if you wish,

Tm.We have little digs at each other, make little wisecracks, but this is where the feeling of' respect comes into it, where we feel we can't…..

But you see you do not only yourselves, but Abraham, a disservice. You see, do not walk behind your teacher, walk along side your teacher. When you allow yourselves, to be yourselves in my presence, you are being true to self, yes? You see, respect when held too high can become a fear of showing your true self, of wounding the rapport between yourselves and Abraham. It is of the opposite, yes.

Pt.But I feel you know us anyway. We . can't hide our selves....

.It matters not, you hide your self, from your self.

Tm.We were taught at school to respect our teachers.

Teacher: Respect born of fear is not good, and I have not said to lose whatever feeling you have towards your teacher, I am saying, do not allow it to be the wall. You see, you are speaking of relationship. How can there be a true relationship between yourselves and your teacher with a wall, not matter with what it is built, yes.

Pt,What I am trying to get at is, Abraham has all that Knowledge I don't know what questions to ask to extract it.

.Ah!!! Because of your wall, remove your wall and you shall see more clearly. Until you are willing to do such, I shall not give further information.

Sl.Well. I've looked on Abraham from the very beginning, from the first lesson, as closer to a friend, or a grand-father figure, which I have said here before, and less the teacher, because at school a teacher would never be a friend, there's a difference, or that's how it's been with my experiences mostly. But Abraham is a friend to us all, so I come here, certainly with some trepidation some weeks, but as the evening wears on, I often get into a stride and can talk to Abraham, and asks questions because I don't think of him so much as a teacher, but as a grand father figure that I can feel close to, and can chat with, that's my picture of Abraham, and it helps me. I have the respect, but the friendship for me, is more powerful, it overrides the awe.

Teacher: Yes.

Ml. I was a teacher, and yet l would say that there was a friendship between me and my pupils.

Sl.Well I can't say that with most of my teachers. Most of mine were very stern, very strict. Also Abraham isn’t a stranger. We are now a family, and Abraham should be treated, I think, as part of the family, riot as a remote visitor, that we just see from time to time, but as somebody closer than that. . I keep coming back to the grand-father, or even just a father figure perhaps, if you had a good relationship with your father, or elderly uncle, perhaps that will help break down some of the walls, if' you can relate to those relationships in your physical lives and transfer it to Abraham .

Teacher: You see, I have said your minds are on the physical. This discussion has proved such. I am Abraham. I am your teacher. I am your friend, yes. I have said this before times. It is for you to accept me as such. To form and bond the relationship, yes. Charlemont has indeed been angry, been frustrated, been of sadness, of joy, yes. And it is appreciated, so too Martinus, Benjamin. I am aware they have been aware of myself for a little longer in physical terms than your self, but before we may journey on together, this question of the relationship must be resolved, for your self's sake yes.

You are all understanding.

Ch.Abraham has stated he is higher consciousness, which mean every one here their higher consciousness as well, so you are really trying to relate to your own higher consciousness. So if you are shutting out some of your own self, you are not being honest with yourself.

Bl So we have got to strive for higher consciousness.

Acceptance of self first, then you have acceptance of others, and in the doing, you have acceptance of God consciousness, yes, if you do not understand my words, please speak.

Ml.Have we been relating with our intellect instead of perhaps our heart & emotions?

.The mind has been in the physical, correct.

Tm.So it's our inner thoughts and inner feeling we should be looking to?

Teacher: No matter how small, inconsequential, it may appear,

Sl When you say acceptance of self, I feel I've got many flaws this acceptance of self...

.What is self, but soul?

"Then I am still talking in the physical, but it could take me years to accept my physical flaws, the things I don't like about myself, that means………

Teacher: Disregard your physical self. Move beyond the physical.

Self Evaluation

Sl.Are souls perfect?

.You may answer this for yourself.

Sl.Well I'd like to think I had a perfect soul

Soul is striving for perfection.

And you see acceptance of self shall bring learning which soul requires, yes, Do not be a feared of the path this could lead to, it is not a path of fear. It is a path of light, of love, of truth, which is God. Do not be a feared I shall castigate for queries, you should know this is not my manner of teaching. You may castigate yourself, yes

By.You said a . little while ago that when we meet, we will be complete personalities.

You should be complete,

By.Yes, does that mean that we have been complete personalities and while we are on Earth, they are not? Or does that mean that while we are here, we are actually working towards being a complete personality

Teacher: Correct. You see, if you have embarrass and hide your queries and do not speak of your embarrass, if you are a feared and hide your queries and do not speak of your fear, if you are of sadness, and hide your queries and do not speak of your sadness etc., you are not a complete personality when we meet. This is clear for you?

I am aware of its difficulty, you see, you are all aware of your own barriers, walls. I am aware of the difficulty for the removal of these barriers and it shall perhaps take some time, space, but it is, and must be, the desires of you for the removal of such barriers, I am unable to do this for you.

You are understanding.

Tm, Getting over the shyness could be one barrier


Ch Would anyone else like to share what they consider their barriers?

Tm. We could all have more than one, shyness was one of my biggest barriers, possibly still is to a certain extent, but I am overcoming it.

Sl. What other barriers are there

Mt. One of my biggest fears was not being able to put what I wanted to say, into words, and I would keep going round & round in circles, and I used to worry about that, trying to make Abraham understand what I wanted to say, now I don't worry about it, if I have something; to say, I just say the best I can and it doesn’t worry me anymore, when we first started I might have to write something out about 3 times before I thought it was good enough to put to Abraham.

I shall give you a barrier, which you all share. FEAR. Fear of JUDGEMENT. Either by Abraham, your teacher, or from each to each, FEAR of DISTRUST, each to each. FEAR of ACCEPTANCE, each to each, yes, and also FEAR of FINDING SELF.

Ch. This is a mini world here, and each of us side by side, fearing each other, in those areas.

Sl. What do we fear, do we fear ridicule from each other

Ch. All are different.

Bl. That’s still a judgement. Why should we fear finding self?

By. I fear that others may see what I am.

Bl. What is it about self, that we fear most?

Mt Fear of the unknown. Fear of what you don't understand.

Bl If we don't know about it, why should we fear it?

Mt Now for me, it's something you don’t understand completely but you no longer worry about it.

Sl But what we are looking for, must be worth looking for, and we must know that, I mean, we are trying so hard to get there, and we decided in soul to do this, I presume, we decided to join a group, if not this group, we decided to come together with people somewhere to unlock our memory, and we are working hard to do it, so it must be worth doing, what we are going to find must be worth searching for, it must even be a nice surprise, or pleasing to us, if we are going to all this trouble, we wouldn’t go to all this trouble if we were going to find something terrible at the end of it all, we wouldn’t have started the journey.

Ch. Why do you say trouble, what is the trouble we are going through

By. I don't call this trouble.

Sl. We put ourselves, whatever our routines used to be last year, we have changed our routines to put aside this night I have changed my entire weekends to type notes, because it takes me the two days, usually the complete Saturday & Sunday possibly the Monday night, with interruptions, to type the notes. 5-8 hours, half an hour per one side of a page, I have changed a good many hours of my previous way of life, weekend routines, outings, chores, visitors, visiting, etc this year, to come to these meetings, to do the notes from these meetings, it must be all worthwhile. I must know deep down that it's going to be worthwhile, it is a lot of work for me, if I can just get over this hurdle of…. I don't know what it is for me, if it's embarrassment or, or, judgement, if it's all of them, but it must be worth me hacking my way through the undergrowth to get there, disrupting what was once a freer family routine.

Then, you have HOMEWORK, until our next appointment to discover for your selves which barrier you have. When you have found it, then shall come understanding acceptance and a lowering of the barriers, yes.

Ch. Next week's subject is barriers.

Mt Will it be that easy.

Sl. I think I already know what mine is, I don't think I want to be scorned at, laughed at. I don’t mind being the clown if I start it.

By.Laugh with you, rather than laugh at you.

Sl That's right, I don't want to be ridiculed I think that's mine,

Ml Maybe we are frightened of what we will find out about ourselves. Maybe we don't want to know that about ourselves. So we put a gloss over it, not as nice as we think we are.

Md.But we are not looking at physical things now.

So perhaps it is good for you to write on paper, your particular barrier, yes? and you may bring it, and if you are of comfort, you may wish to discuss, yes. This is of comfort?

SlAbraham, was I right with my one in that I don't want to be scorned, or should I look for a more prominent barrier?

Teacher: I shall not say, you shall know for yourself.

Md. You are trying to cheat. (laughter)

Sl.No, if I've found it, I don't have to do any more homework, (more laughter)

Bl.If we fear ourselves, that means we are fearing God because we are part of God,


And Selina, you do have to write, for your understanding and if you wish, for others to understand, you shall perhaps discover much of self.

Sl.Another list, I'm good at lists.

Teacher: Not a list.

Bl.Only one this time Selina.

Ml.If we each acknowledge our fears amongst ourselves then we will each develop a greater love amongst ourselves and a greater understanding.

Correct, but you see it must be each individuals desire for this.

Ml For me to open myself out and say my fears out in front of you means that I trust you all, I would have to trust you to do it.

Sl.That's right,

Teacher: Correct. It maybe take some time, space for this to be accomplished. Do not concern. There shall be no reviling, there shall be no judgement, there shall be no chastisement from any person, if there is, I shall chastise most sternly.

Sl Yes, I felt very sympathetic towards Belinda, when she was telling us about her abhorrence to violence, and you explained to her why, and I just felt so sad for her, that she had gone through some terrible experience in some past life, and I don't think I reacted differently to her at work. but I just felt so sorry that she had to suffer at some stage,

Teacher: Do not take Belinda's pain and make it your own. You have your own to live with and this is part of your lesson. Understand Belinda’s pain, is all that is required, do not endeavour to take from her, that which is not yours. You are understanding?

And I say this to all, you see, in the judging, in the reviling, in the chastising, you also take, yes. Understanding, acceptance is all that is required but you are finding that it is of difficulty, yes.

Sl.I seem to be a very emotional person, I can't watch a sad movie without crying, even though there is possibly a happy ending, I seem to get really involved with the stories.

Do not concern. You see, that is of a differing nature, to that which you experience for Belinda, yes.

Sl.yes, it's more distant.


Bl.It lightens my heart to know that I don't have to experience that ever again, so I don't look on what's happened as anything sad, I know it's never going to be again.

Teacher: Yes. Then you are all of comfort? You are all of acceptance of your work? You are all desirous to do so? Then I shall leave you, but first, in answer to your query Selina, I shall not give words for Ishmael. You shall repeat your opening prayer for all.

Sl.Thank you Abraham.

Teacher: It is not good to single one person, the burden would become too great,



Teacher: Then I leave you with this,

In the darkness of the earth, there lies a jewel, a diamond, in the darkness of your being; there lies a jewel, your soul.