Group: Cincinnati TeaM
TR: Jim Cleveland
GROUP PRAYER: Dear Michael, this evening our main prayer is for the young people of our country, those without direction in their lives and finding themselves in a state of confusion, lacking the ability to make moral decisions. We ask that a corps of individuals with love in their hearts and minds be sent out into the cities, towns and rural counties across the 50 states of this country to work with and help these [[young people]] find love and understanding so great they may begin to build their lives on this foundation. We ask that this education program vary from group to group to truly meet their needs, emotionally and physically, to help them to prepare themselves to live productive lives, living with respect for themselves and their fellow Urantians.
We ask that these teachers be sent by whatever vehicle you have at your disposal, our new presidential administration, churches, schools, for profit and non-profit companies as well as other branches of government and organizations. Also Michael, it is our deepest hope they will become God-knowing and God-loving.
In follow-up to two past prayers, please help clean water to flow through the Somalian countryside, water for medical needs and water needed to sustain life, whether it go the way of water trucks..but please help the water reach individuals who need it so amputations do not have to be done for individuals who are suffering from infections. Also, in the land formerly known as Yugoslavia, please impress upon the minds of the soldiers, military officers and leaders that rape is not an acceptable way to fight a war and bring about ethnic cleansing. Please help the United Nations to broker a peace treaty that will last.
And above all, Michael, we ask that your Father's will be done above our will in all these prayers and all these things that we ask. It is our deepest hope that these things that we have asked for will be able to come about through love and through your will, Michael. Thank you for listening to our prayers.
WELMEK: Greetings everyone, this is Welmek. It is always a pleasure to be in association with you. It pleases us to hear your effective prayers. Each time you attempt to communicate in such a way, you do yourself as well as your brothers and sisters a great service.
Your prayer for the youth is wholly consistent with the activity that is currently going on amongst ourselves. There is a team called the New Generation Team. It is a specific corps of instructors that have been designed to implement programs that will do almost exactly what you have asked. We are wholly aware of the need for future generations follow- through with what we have started here over the past few years. It is truly deplorable to see so many of the youth of your world in such a plight, not knowing who to love, not knowing about the Father, unsure of themselves and unsure of a secure future.
These things, my friends, will take time to change. They take effort on all of our parts. However, by such effective praying, you will help to facilitate the outworking of this mission. As I have told you before and will reiterate tonight, nothing will stop the plan of Michael. But it does help that you think about these things and do what you can to see the fruition thereof.
Let us take a moment of silent worship for our Father before we begin tonight's meeting.
Let us begin. There are many gathered here this evening, as has become customary. Your subject matter tonight, while not necessarily more important than other topics that we have discussed, nevertheless it is most important that you take heed to how you feel and what you think in regards to this matter. I debated whether or not I wanted to share with you our thoughts and feelings to the extent possible on this topic before we had the group participation. I decided to implement part of the characteristic of tolerance and allow you to express yourself first.
There is much I wish to discuss, so why don't we begin with your comments; and hopefully, time will allow us to engage further. Thank you Dennis for your preparation and please initiate your discussion.
D: Thank you Welmek. This week has been an eventful week with Thurgood Marshall graduating, one of the most eloquent and indomitable voices for freedom of education for all Americans. Just recently another area where tolerance is a consideration is being voiced regarding gays in the military, which is a topic we may get to yet this evening.
I would like to begin, of course, with a definition of what tolerance is. There are a number of factors involved in how we would choose to use the term. Welmek emphasized it's one of the primary aspects of character a few weeks ago, so I would encourage someone to start the ball rolling with how they understand tolerance.
M: I thought about it, and I think to me tolerance, if I had to define it with other words, would be understanding, compassion, and humility. I think many times when we're tolerant of something, it's something that we consider to be negative or un-Godlike; and whether it's a person's attitude, behavior. And so I find it much more difficult to be tolerant than I do to be patient. For a long time I thought the two were similar, but I don't think they're similar at all. I think with tolerance you have to be more understanding of whatever actions you're being patient with. I think that's understanding; and after reading the Jesus papers when I was younger for the first time, it's amazing to me how tolerant Jesus was with those he came in contact with. I think he was a perfect example of tolerance, but understanding I think is what tolerance is about.
J: Tolerance, to me, has something to do with not being judgmental of others; and that's one thing I always remember that Jesus always said, not to judge others and to be tolerant of that. That's a real high order, but I think it has a lot to do with not judging others.
S: I think that it goes along with understanding no matter who it is, that people are doing the best they can. Even if their best is nowhere close to our bottom, they're still doing the best they can.
D: I was wondering when we talk about how tolerant one should be, to make a distinction between being tolerant for the individual and what their actions are. Do we want to draw the line somewhere as far as what we accept in terms of action. Does anybody have any thoughts on that line?
M: Are you suggesting that there's a distinction to be made between the identity of a person and their behavior?
M: That is, tolerant of an individual but not necessarily are tolerant of their behavior.
D: Where does justice come in. At what point should we seek justice? And how would we express tolerance for that individual and yet not necessarily sanction the behavior.
S: Separate the action from the actor. You love the person but you hate what they do.
D: It's a difficult . ..
K: You could also try to understand motivation. People have a lifetime of problems. Maybe in their lives the abuser is many times abused; and that doesn't condone the action, but it helps you to understand where they are and it brings in a little bit more of a sympathetic justice. They should be punished for what they did, but at the same time let's try to help them sort out what started the problem to begin with and let's try to end the cycle. Rather than just punishing and punishing, let's do something constructive and end that cycle.
S: Isn't tolerance more or less an automatic response to understanding? When we don't understand someone, their behavior for example, it might be more difficult for us to be tolerant of something. But if they're giving us a negative response because they don't feel good, but we don't understand that, and when we do find out that they don't feel good, then we seem to automatically be more tolerant because we understand their position, what's eating them.
M: Compassion fits in there somewhere. To even have the ability to be tolerant, you have to be compassionate to some degree.
D: What about a stranger? When we encounter a stranger that we don't really know anything about, we have established friendship where we have some knowledge and the bonds that develop through knowledge and understanding, but..
S: That would take a degree of faith I guess in saying to yourself, "Well, that person's got a legitimate reason for behaving that way." You just don't know.
K: And also to remember that there's a fragment of God in each of us; and if you treat people with that in mind, then it's much easier to tolerate whatever they're doing. You're not condoning their actions, but you do realize that God loves that person just as much as He loves you, so it clears the picture a little bit I think.
M: It's definitely a different kind of tolerance when it's someone you know versus someone that you don't. There's a difference there.
S: It's open-mindedness too.
M: There's a difference when you encounter someone that's from another country and doesn't speak English. You're more tolerant of their behavior and their (?) than you are of someone that you love.
D: So there's still some distance when we use the word tolerance in which you don't necessarily in an intimate relationship say, "I tolerate you." (laughter)
A: I think you can tolerate certain behaviors in intimate relationships, and maybe that's a real test of love too because we expect so much more from that person because we do love them. To me, tolerance is, I think of it as patience and then I think of tolerance as a step that goes beyond patience. It's like the ideal of patience comes first and tolerance is more of what Mark and Steve and Jill said all rolled into that.
L: I think what Mark said was interesting because that's how I feel about it too. I can be patient in an impersonal situation, but tolerance to me indicates that interaction with a personality; and it has love added to patience. You can have love with patience, but you don't always; and tolerance always has love. I guess compassion would come under that, understanding, kindness or whatever.
To me, too, it's kind of recognizing universe reality that every one of us is different and that having that respect for that difference in another person, it's not just "putting up" with that person, it's realizing that maybe some of the things you don't especially find very endearing about that person are still an expression of the Father. And this is reality. All through our universe career we're going to meet individuals that are very, very different from us.
This is an ongoing thing. As tolerant as we may become on this planet, we've got a lot more to do in the future.
M: I would follow that. It seemed to me in thinking about this over the week that I drew the conclusion, and I went through all the thinking about understanding, etc., and I came up with that very conclusion, that tolerance was a genuine appreciation for diversity. If you really appreciate diversity and how wonderful this universe is in all of its diverse manifestations and personality, then that recognition in an everyday sense will necessarily result in being tolerant of people. I'm thinking back about my life and when I was a hippie weirdo and had long hair (laughter) and we all fancied ourselves very tolerant. We couldn't stand people who were intolerant. (laughter)
Remember those days? People who weren't tolerant, you couldn't stand them?
A: They had short hair.
M: They had short hair. (laughter) It's funny how that happens, but that people are different than you and have different views than you and how distasteful they might be at some level, still there's a purpose for that; and if we only had the ability to appreciate that...
K: You can flip a coin too, Marty, and someone looked at you with your long hair and thought "That hippie, he'll never amount to anything." And now you're an attorney.
M: They were right. (laughter)
K: But they made judgments about you. You had long hair, you were no good.
M: I like what Jill said. I think the beginning, to even begin tolerance, you have to not judge because I think most people who are intolerant the first thing they do is judge. You immediately judge and then criticize or create a negative concept or view of what they're saying. That's very important.
K: And people have a tendency to do that upon first introduction anyway. You size somebody up immediately, from the very beginning; you have to try to stay a little bit more open or you won't get any farther to find out what that person's really like.
M: I find that it's not really different from what everybody is saying, but I'm trying to boil it down. To me, it's an attitude of loving open-mindedness. I think the open-mindedness is crucial; it tied into being judgmental. Every situation we look at we build an image based upon our own framework of experience; and we have certain expectations, certain beliefs, maybe certain stereotypes, whatever it is, and then when things don't fit that, that causes a reaction. So being able to be open-minded and realize that there's much beyond our level of experience that we don't really understand yet will tend to suspend that judgment and that's where the loving part comes in. You try to remain a little more open so you can understand them better.
There may come a time, because of certain actions, you might have to make a judgment on the actions, but you still can't judge their soul or spirit. You can't truly know those things. It's just that shattering. Our world is so small. We build these images, all of these concepts; and we think we understand so much, but we truly understand almost nothing.
B: I think that intolerance begins with people because we're so isolated from each other. We can't get inside of each other's heads or thoughts. We can't see so that we can relate on a superficial level, but we can't get inside. People have like a religious experience or something that causes them to know a great joy, and they think, oh, this is wonderful. I have this personal pipeline to God and they think it's the only one and they don't think anyone else has one. And so they begin to feel superior, and I think this is what causes intolerance, our inability to really truly know another human being.
So tolerance begins when we realize that everyone has their own personal pipeline to God and everyone's pipeline is just as valid as anyone else's and that we know that everyone has their personal relationship with God, and they have also the God-given right to work out that relationship with God. We have no right to judge what goes on with them or what happens in their life or how they've worked it out because then we're playing God. True tolerance is when you realize that everyone has that relationship with God and everyone has the right to that relationship with God and that we have no right to judge that or to play God.
G: But I don't think when things happen you would think about religion and this, that and the other. I'm a person that when I first meet you, I usually like or dislike you. If I dislike you, usually something comes across that there is reason for that. But if you happen to be in a place where I need to tolerate you, I'm very good at tolerating. There's times we have to tolerate, especially for family members. It's like in-laws and out-laws in your family. We tolerate those because you have to.
D: I'd like to bring this point. We're talking about this problem. Another champion of Mahatma Ghandi has this quote I'd like to have Gina and Amber share with us. He championed the rights of the untouchables in India and gave them political (?)
"I am a man of peace. I believe in peace. But I do not want peace at any price. I do not want peace that you find in stone. I do not want the peace that you find in the grave. But I do want that peace which you find embedded in the human breast which is exposed to the whole world, but which is protected from all harm by the power of the Almighty God."
"Let then our first act every morning be to make the following resolve for the day. I shall not fear anyone on earth. I shall fear only God. I shall not feel ill-will towards anyone. I shall not submit to injustice for anyone. I shall conquer untruth by truth, and in resisting untruth, I shall endure all suffering."
D: Thank you Gina and Amber. Ghandi mentioned fear; and I think a lot of the intolerance that we feel is generated on fear of the unknown factors in an encounter, the assumptions we may make start with those patterns that are ingrained in our outlook that we carry around unconsciously for the most part.
Maybe we could look at other triggers that bring on intolerance at this point. We've mentioned lack of understanding and fear.
A: I have one thought I'd like to add. When Brenda used your description, I was thinking of the opposite, a person who has a sin of pride, that lack of tolerance and that ideal of being a person who has their own private pipeline.
D: Mark mentioned humility as being the other side of the coin, right?
B: We're talking about things that go against the grain, like jealousy?
M: I think one of the things when we become intolerant is because we are not confident in our own feelings about that issue.
B: I think a lot of times insecurity is intolerance. You meet people who are almost hyper-critical and they can't do anything, but they criticize everything. That's because of an insecurity, they have a real inferiority complex.
L: I think it's from what perspective you relate to another or think of them. It's a real critical factor. I think if you relate only from your own life experience and try to apply your circumstances to another, I think that's where we get into the greatest problem. That causes all the other reactions that we just talked about. I think having a broader perspective which would allow people to have the option of having more cosmic perspective, you could have a broader perspective even without that, just having a more world perspective, a perspective that's beyond your own immediate environment. That's where it's hard for people who don't interact with others who are different to any great degree to have that experience because they aren't prompted by the environment to do so. It takes a greater will determination to have that attitude.
I think it's representative of how other countries judge our population when we visit their countries. There's a mixing of people in some areas and some areas are more separate. But as far as dealing with other languages and other cultures we don't have as much of that to deal with as many countries do. We don't get the opportunity to practice it as much I think.
S: It almost sounds like bigotry. That's what came to mind.
B: I think too, that people who don't relate well to other people or to situations around them sometimes try to control other people because it gives them a sense of power and a sense of controlling their own lives when they feel they have no control. That's very intolerant because they're totally blind to the fact that that other person has the right to be themselves, to live their own lives.
L: I think tolerance takes time too. I had a rare opportunity of learning. The high school that I went to was a real cross-section of our type city, race, religion, social economics situation. And we were a class during a pretty troublesome time. I never saw us as a very united class; but there were a lot of bonds and love formed there. And at our 20-year reunion it was really amazing with the maturity of time how many people came back and talked about how important that was to them; and it was so difficult for them to duplicate what we had in high school in the world when we went out as adults, how all of us in many ways tried to do that, which was kind of exciting.
M: Immaturity, then, plays a big factor.
B: And so does lack of love. A lack of love for oneself and for people and the world in general.
D: So another source of tolerance is beyond understanding and humility, and more of a spiritual standpoint, what would you say, Brenda, is a way of achieving a proper attitude of tolerance?
B: It starts with realizing if you do it consciously and make yourself think that this person is a child of God. He has a Father fragment within. It's like when you look at someone and you think I am you and you are me, to make yourself see this as a reality until it becomes a reality so that you can love that person, love yourself and love that person and have an appreciation for what I call the myriad faces of God.
D: What are some techniques we can use to achieve that? What comes to mind?
M: I think of the one where we're supposed to perceive each person as though they were Michael. Can you imagine being intolerant of Michael?
S: I think that perceiving those that you meet that perhaps you might find some immaturity, think of them as a little child because lack of knowledge tends to create fear and anger and intolerance. If you think of them kind of like this little child, then those things that you have trouble with then you can be more compassionate with and tolerant.
D: Would you say a family is helpful in learning tolerance in family situations? (laughter) Anyone want to share some experiences along that line?
S: In-laws and out-laws come to mind real quick. (laughter)
D: So a family is kind of a nucleus of the whole world. As we reach further into our family lineage...
A: Welmek said to me one time that even though they are in adult bodies you have to look at them as young children sometimes with their behavior. I was reading through that morontia world paper, at the very beginning it was very comforting to me. It said if God wanted to create a perfect being, He would do it and does so. That was comforting to me because that is so frustrating to try to live up to your ideals that it's kind of nice to know that you weren't created to be perfect and that there is no way you can get totally perfect in this lifetime. It helped me to lighten up a little bit. (laughter)
M: One of my favorite quotes from the book is don't be discouraged when you realize you're human. (laughter)
S: I love that one also. You weren't made perfect, perfection is your goal. I don't remember the exact quote.
L: I think recognizing that everyone has the gift of free will from the Father is an important factor too. Sometimes we want to assert our will on others.
B: Along with that also, is the fact that we have to realize that people have the right to their sorrows as well as their joys.
B: I know for me, when I had my first session with Welmek, he pinpointed tolerance for me to work on. I don't know why...(laughter)..so I set out to work on tolerance. Over the period of weeks I discovered myself catching myself, I'm talking mainly at work here, with people that I work with, and I'm sure we're all in a situation where you have bosses and you have associates. Over a period of weeks even, I discovered that people who were like me, that's being intolerant, and they were looking at me kind of strange-like. (laughter) But that was only an outer manifestation because inwardly I was still
churning. It's just that I wasn't expressing it outwardly.
Welmek suggested that we look at a person as if they were Jesus, and
I had a difficult time with that. I practiced that and I practiced
that and it did not work because every time I looked at a person that
I was getting intolerant for obviously there was a reason why I was
becoming intolerant. I mean there's an action here that I did not
approve of to begin with, and I felt like shaking them..(laughter)
That's what was going through my mind, so I looked at it a little
differently. Instead of looking at it as if he were Jesus, look at
it through the eyes of Jesus. In other words, put me in that and how
would he act; and obviously Jesus wouldn't act that way. That was
much better for me. You can't look at somebody and say that this
is Jesus Christ, at least for me, because you know damn well he
wouldn't act that way. (laughter) You have to turn it around. For
me that was better because I could not get through that barrier, and
that was a barrier.
M: I think we have similar, I think we're both working on a similar
problem with ourself. I think you realize as I do that the first
thing you have to do is realize that you're being intolerant and stop
and think about how you're reacting. I mean that's how I did it.
Like you said, then all of a sudden I'm realizing that hey, they're
like I used to be, kind of like the pot calling the kettle black kind
of a thing? Now when you're more tolerant and you're trying to
explain to them why they should be tolerant then they start the pot
calling the kettle black routine on you because "Oh you're telling me
So it's more of a realization at first, you have to realize yourself,
that you're doing it. You have to become conscious that you're being
intolerant or impatient or however many of those other emotions that
we go through with these people and then deal with it at that moment.
M: And those people feel that way about you.
M: Oh, I'm sure.
K: But you also have to realize that when you become frustrated with a
person's actions or whatever, you're harming no one but yourself
because those feelings are brewing up inside of you and it certainly
doesn't hurt the person that you're being intolerant with. It's
hurting you because you're then taking it home, you're getting the
headache, you're getting the ulcer or whatever it may be. So it's
really hurting you and not that other person.
M: It's funny. They say you have opportunities each day, and boy, do I
have a bunch.
D: Is Christ totally out of the equation? He's really present with
that individual so he's a factor in that individual's consciousness,
which obviously some way or another he's out of contact with, but is
there some way we can act that will bring that connection a little
more to the foreground?
L: I noticed that in my reading on this subject, one definition that was
a little different I thought, for me at least, was to show an
interest in and a general concern for other people's ideas and
opinions and their different way of a lifestyle, whatever it might be
I think this is something that Jesus did throughout his life: he
found opportunities to get to know people better in that aspect.
This is something that kind of opens the door to opportunities to get
to know people better.
D: He wanted to learn the minds of men. He went down into the war
lines, I guess, to get to know them.
M: I'd like to follow up on something that Karla said that struck me.
She was talking about how intolerance interferes with, well, emotion
arises and I was struck by that. We would all agree, would we not,
that if we were conscious of God's love, perfectly conscious of God's
love then we'd be tolerant.
M: What interferes with our consciousness of God's love? Remember that
we learned that emotions, reactions to external events, interferes
with that, all the things we've talked about. So by being intolerant
that interferes with our consciousness of God's love.
L: It's like closing a door and trying to go through yourself.
M: It makes it very difficult to be tolerant, by allowing those emotions
like those emotions you expressed a while ago, Bob, by reacting and
making a choice to permit those emotions to come up, that interferes
with our consciousness of God's love. It makes it real hard to be
L: Something Karla said about what you do to yourself when you're not,
Jesus said the same thing to the apostles essentially. He was
talking about tact and tolerance and he said if you possess these
rare and charming gifts, you will avoid many of the problems relating
to social adjustment, etc., and he went through a list of things. So
Karla was right. If you can develop tolerance, you'll save yourself
a lot of problems.
K: Just think. Michael had the opportunity to be intolerant every day
of his life. He was a human being.
A: People say you are what you eat, but you are also what you think.
M: If we remember that we can work through feeling the Father's love in
dealing with other individuals, trying to be tolerant, it would
follow then that we can remember that the Father is the one who has
the last word on an individual and behavior. And if we can take the
time to think long enough and remember where the Father fits in in
all of this equation, then our tolerance would manifest itself
because we're able to see that in the long run, God's going to
straighten this person out anyway.
We're all children, truly we're all children, even compared to Welmek
or Machiventa or anyone. If we can look at that person that way and
remember that our siblings have just as long a way to go as we do,
then it's easier to be tolerant. But we have to do that through
feeling the Father's love and I think through faith that He is the
one who is going to handle the situation if we can't because of
circumstances or whatever.
L: It's kind of like we could help create an environment or a soil to
help people grow and be more God-conscious and practice all the
things that we're learning by allowing people some of those freedoms
and support that doesn't exist in our world already, that cause all
of us to develop some confusion and doubt and fears that we have
K: Also, I think another thing that hasn't been pointed out is those
that we have problems with and we have difficulty tolerating who are
so unlike us, we simply do not have to be around them. The times
that we are we should practice the Father's love, feeling the
Father's love and not judging and so on and so forth; but at the same
time, there are people on this planet that we're not going to get
along with, that our ideas are going to be so different, and we can
choose not to be a part of that person's life. That's something too,
that you don't have to keep setting yourself up for situations that
would cause intolerance.
D: What would be a way we could direct love toward that individual to
maybe increase their tolerance?
K: I think the simple act of listening sometimes helps. You may
disagree with everything that that person says, but simply listening
lets them hear themselves and kind of analyze their own problem. I
think that's something that we all can do whether we agree with them
L: It lets them truly understand who they are and where they come from,
what their experience has been.
A: I think also too, that when they react with anger to us if we can
stop ourselves from getting into that cycle and reacting angrily with
them and if we can go one step beyond and send love back to them..I
know I've been in situations with people and it's been kind of
amazing because it's turned the whole thing around when I do that,
into a positive situation.
M: Are you suggesting there's an aspect of self-control?
B: Prayer is another way. Pray for that person. Pray for yourself to
S: I've felt that when I've had an occasional situation where it was
difficult for me to be tolerant at first, that when I prayed for that
person, my tolerance grew.
M: Just the fact that you prayed for them shows that you care, that you
love them. Obviously, to even make that effort is genuinely
benefitting you; rather than just turning them off, you're trying to
P: I've seen one thing that struck me as far as how to deal with...I saw
Sesame Street this afternoon, watching it with Patrick. They had a
skit where they said that we all need to realize that there's a
monster in everybody's mind. He's in the mirror every morning when
we get up; and if we can learn how to deal with that monster, can't
we learn how to deal with everybody else's monster.
A: It seems to me faith is a real active force in tolerance because when
we can find our faith in God, then we can truly be tolerant. Without
that, tolerance is almost impossible it seems to me.
D: What about the situation where you run into two warring factions,
turf wars or something, and you get into mediating a situation many
times. What comes to mind as far as reducing the tension? I've
been in the middle of this this past week myself, so I'll just say
for my own part that both sides really did not know the full story of
where the other person was coming from and didn't really bother to
even break ground as far as that other person. Just going and
listening to each individual they're more than willing to share their
point of view; but when they start barking at each other there's not
much of that information that gets shared.
M: Having had a lot of direct experience in so many conflicts (laughter)
a technique that I find that works is to first of all to validate
people's feelings. I understand what you're feeling. I understand
what you're saying. You don't have to say I agree with you. When
you say I understand what you're saying they always think you're
agreeing with them; and all you're saying is I hear what you're
Then pick out the little pieces that will fit with what the other
side said. And you can build 3 or 4 things that they agree with,
then you start isolating the areas of major disagreement. It seems
you can get some movement on each one of the little areas of
disagreement till you start building some consensus. If you can
build enough consensus then at some point in time you're hopeful that
there will be some kind of a leap by one side or the other to bridge
the gap. But it starts by finding agreement, little bit by little
I'm amazed at people who are good mediators. My profession now has
moved in a major way towards that as a means for resolving conflicts
rather than going to court because of all the money associated with
it. People who are good mediators are amazing. As soon as they see
a hot issue, they're right off it. They're moving around, where can
we agree until they just develop consensus.
K: On another side too, not dealing with it professionally, just with
friends, is to try to help each side understand the motivation. That
person is hurt, trying to help them with motivation, telling them
just enough. You don't have to betray a trust that person has had in
you, but you can tell the other side maybe just enough so that they
understand the motivation and look at it in a little bit different
M: That's the key we keep going back to, trying to look at it from the
standpoint of why they did what they did. I've found that when you
hear a bunch of people saying something about someone and you just
interject the idea of well, maybe they did it for this reason, and
then people think, well, maybe that's...it kind of defuses them. It
makes them take a second look at things, again, a sort of
illustration of the snarling cave man. When you see the saber-
toothed tiger and the wife and child on the other side, when you open
up that view to really understand why, then that gives it a whole new
perspective. Most of the time we just make our judgments and we
never really make an effort to, either ourselves say "What would I
do in that situation?" or maybe we don't even know enough about the
other person to appreciate how they might think. And seldom do we
really go ask them this, "you know I don't really understand why you
did what you did."
That can be kind of tough to do with a lot of people, but on the
other hand I would say probably most people, if we could understand
them within their frame of mind and their frame of reference, they
probably did do what they thought was the right thing. There are
those that might not, but I would say most people would.
It's just that all of our frameworks are so limited. We're just not
very experienced yet. We don't always know the right way and we
react in all these different ways.
K: But can't you even take that in your own life and look back and see
different things that you've done in your own life. Hindsight is
always 20/20, but you can say it was because of this, this and this
that I did that stupid thing. If you can do it in your own life, of
course you can't see the all the truths and all the actual things
that person went through, but simply to have that frame of mind to
D: So forgiveness ties right in.
L: I think having the willingness to step aside from your own
perceptions and look at it in large perceptions is really important
because so many times problems are perpetuated because people work
very hard to validate their perception of a problem, even when there
are reasons to move away from that. That's where that pride comes
in, or whatever other aspects of self that...
D: The pace of change is so great in our society that to try to validate
a fixed position is troublesome.
M: Do you all agree that everyone does about as well as they can, given
their situations and circumstances?
B: I believe that's true. I believe everyone does the best they know
L: We all have the ability to grow and to love.
A: I think most negative things are motivated by fear.
M: The problem is, when you see somebody who's really negative, or has
an awful lot of problems, it's really pretty hard to figure that out;
but I suppose as she was saying, if you realize that's all they've
learned, if they don't really know any better behavior patterns, in a
certain sense, they're making the most with what will they have.
They don't know how to deal with the problem probably any better than
to deal with it by fear or in other ways. That's kind of a shame;
it's kind of sad to think that that's the kind of people that are
growing up on this planet. In effect, I guess that's kind of where
L: If we can understand what causes the fears in people and try to
alleviate those, we can build some bridges that way.
M: I don't disagree that everyone is not doing their best. But there's
also a lot of decisions being made that they know in their own minds
are wrong. People are out there acting against what they know is
wrong. I can't totally agree with that statement because I find that
anytime you have the choice of free will and even when a person knows
what is morally right, many people are out there acting against those
B: I don't think we are capable of making that decision.
S: They're doing the best they can with the situation they have.
M: When they make some kind of a conscious decision to do something that
they know is wrong, you can't say they're doing the best they can.
B: You see, you're making a judgment call there.
S: What if they're doing the best they can in their circumstances.
M: You don't think there are any situations where people know what they
are doing is wrong and are doing it anyway?
B: They do it for the best reasons.
M: They don't have the level of comprehension that allows them to make a
B: Are there situations that become involved to the point where their
judgment is clouded and they can't see?
M: It's just hard for me to believe that everyone is doing the best they
D: There's something that probably motivates them to do what they're
doing. It's not necessarily that they're going off in a mindless
way; but their faith is not burning strongly enough in their mind to
be part of the equation.
B: But there are also those who are incapable of making that kind of
decision and they come up maybe in a good family and good schools and
have a religious background and everything but still are mentally and
emotionally incapable of making that kind of decision. And if you
judge them, then that's what you're doing, you're judging. You don't
have the right to do that.
M: The thing that makes me look back at tolerance is the fact that our
Adjusters stay with us through thick and thin. Now there's
tolerance for you. (laughter) Knowing what they know, and knowing
where they come from, they stay with individuals who perpetuate the
most heinous crimes to humanity and each other; and if they can do
that, that gives you food for thought as far as what tolerance really
means and where we're going. We want the world to change and we want
individuals to come closer to God. If they're that patient and
tolerant, then who are we to judge?
M: You could follow up on that. What did Jesus say as he died on the
cross? Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do. I
know what you're saying, Mark, in a certain sense; yet on the other
hand you have to look at it with a certain compassion because if you
really understood the Father's love, you wouldn't murder or rape or
do those kinds of things. If you really understood that and then did
it, I can hardly imagine that really. You'd almost have to be out of
So it doesn't mean we don't have to judge their actions, put them in
jail and all that kind of stuff. We can't tolerate those behaviors
as a society; but as far as what goes on inside them, sometimes I
look at them and think how would you like to be someone who had that
kind of limited understanding and felt no love. It must feel awful
inside to be able to do such things.
S: They wouldn't know any better. They wouldn't know there was
B: There are people who are morally insane. On the surface, they're
very normal people; and you may think that usually they have good
judgment like that. But that's a learned reaction, it's
intellectual. They are morally insane. They have absolutely no
comprehension of right or wrong, what's good or bad; and they do
things that make you think that person is like this or that. But
you're the one that's being intolerant in judging.
S: Jesus was saying that individuals should never make a judgment
against a man, only society, because we tend to be biased in our
opinions due to the experience that we've uniquely had in our own
lives. But as far as judging whether a person has done all he could
or not, I think only the Father knows.
T: I think that tolerance is (words lost) your character. It's kind of
like panning for gold. If you let all the sand and water and dirt
run off, you've got gold. I think that the rewards of that are well
worth instilling tolerance in yourself.
D: Having an expectation for the good and then bringing it forward.
G: Everybody has good in them, everybody, no matter who you are. My
husband's people were on the outs over an inheritance thing; and they
didn't speak with or have anything to do with one of them for almost
l2 years. That hurts me. I don't like people mad at one another.
So it took me a long, long time, l2 years, of finally getting these
fences mended. But I'm glad I did. Without the prayer and God's
help, it would never have happened. And now and then they still want
to bicker. Forget it, that person is responsible and has to pay for
that themselves. And you don't want to bring up all this old stuff
because it causes more hate and contempt.
D: Like what Marty was saying, avoid those hot issues. Work on the
M: So you think of someone on their universe career. You know there
are those personalities who end up being extinguished because they
choose not to go the way of the Father. Are you saying that all of
those people or personalities, when they approach that point in time,
it's simply because they don't understand?
M: I don't think you have enough awareness.
M: My point is, there is that side of that issue. So maybe I was
thinking of it in a broader perspective and not necessarily here
M: I think you've got an interesting point that I'd like to explore a
little bit. It brought up the idea of the distinctions between
evil, sin and iniquity. Anybody know those distinctions?
M: Evil, according to the book, is basically a mistake that you make.
L: A lack of knowledge and understanding.
M: Sin is deliberate wrong-doing, even though you may or may not know
M: That would be like what you're talking about, Mark, deliberate
M: Are we saying that that doesn't happen on this planet?
L: It's a frame of reference. They may know that they're doing
something that isn't right, but they probably don't have the full
comprehension that Mike's talking about in terms of who they are and
who the people are they're relating to. They're dealing with it from
a materialistic world; and a lot of what they have been taught in
that perspective and how to get ahead and deal with it properly, you
know, and fight for their space instead of treating each other as if
they understood their role as a brother or sister. That's the
knowledge they lack to truly make a wilful decision to sin. So is it
a sin? We can't judge that I don't think. Is that a sin that you're
talking about or is it an evil, a wrong act.
K: Everybody knows that it's a sin to take a life, that it's not right
to take a life; so everyone that kills someone knows that they are
sinning because it's not right to take a life.
M: What about war? What about in fits of emotion or anger?
K: It's still wrong. We could go on about war forever, but even in a
fit of rage or emotion, it's still wrong. The fit of rage or emotion
is the reason behind it. Somebody's been abused for long periods of
time. So we do understand certain times when people have killed
other people; but it's still wrong to take another one's life.
M: Some people don't really understand that that's wrong. That's the
whole point of war and everything else. There are people who..that's
their lifestyle. So I still think that falls in the category of sin
over iniquity. I don't know where all of this fits in with
tolerance; except that cosmically speaking, none of us really
comprehend experientially what it is like to avoid, and keep from
making those kinds of mistakes.
M: I think the point that has to do with tolerance is that there are
certain magnitudes of evil and sin or iniquity that it becomes, at
least for me, impossible to tolerate.
M: I understand where you are. Is there a distinction between the act
M: Can you tolerate the person but be intolerant of the sin?
M: That's a good point that he's bringing up though. Because we're
faced with that every day. And it doesn't even have to be murder or
incest or anything like that. It's hard for us to really stop and
back up far enough to see a person as a person and separate that
person from what they do, to avoid making a judgment on them.
M: Isn't that the difficulty, being able to separate the person from
L: I think the difficulty sometimes is how to safeguard yourself and
others from the behavior that is inappropriate and still be loving.
How to act out your love for that person at the same time is
difficult in our world. It's hard to know how to draw those lines.
D: There's a quote on page l579 of the Urantia Book that I'd like to
share with you on this topic. I'm paraphrasing somewhat. Jesus
taught not to resist evil, not to combat injustice or injury, but he
did not teach passive tolerance of wrong-doing. He approved of
social punishment with evildoers, that civil government must
sometimes apply force to maintain and order in the execution of
justice. From the tradition we've received, it doesn't give much
emphasis to that side of the issue. I think taking the law into our
own hands is where we're taught to restrain ourselves.
S: I think what it means too, is that we as individuals should try not
to judge someone; but as a society, that function is necessary.
M: The other thing too, is that the judgments are always given to a
group and never to an individual because one individual's experience
is always way too limited to be able to appreciate why that person
might have done what they did. But a group could put many
perspectives together for a fair decision.
A: I'd like to ask Welmek's opinion of our assumption when humans on
this planet knowingly do wrong that (?)
W: There are times when humans commit sin. There are those whose level
of understanding of the spiritual status is such that in the
decision-making process they elect to choose self-assertion rather
than self-less decisions. Sin is not something which is as you might
consider it in some religions, and immortal act that can never be
overcome. But, if pursued to the point of consistency, it then
translates into iniquitous action and the termination of that is
Therefore, I would, to some extent, caution you in your thinking that
there is no one capable of committing sin. Most of the time, you are
correct in your assessment. It is simply a lack of understanding and
inability to feel the Father's love that creates the evil or error in
decisions. But there are those who consciously and whole-heartedly
do go against the inner leadings. These people are not made as
though they were not on your world, for their level of understanding
is not mature. They are given more options.
If we may, I wish to have an associate give you a few thoughts on
FELICIA: Greetings brothers and sisters. My name is Felicia. I have
been permitted to visit to awhile and to speak to your group. To me,
tolerance is applied faith, motivated by love, dominated by mercy,
conditioned by patience and perceived and graciousness.
GROUP: That's good...(laughter).
F: As expressed in cosmic reality, genuine tolerance translates from the
human experience into the supreme as divine love. Each time you
express genuine tolerance, you add to the collectiveness of the
Supreme and the outworking of the love. This is most important for
you to realize, for every time you do that which is consistent with
the will of God, you contribute something of value to the God of
experience. You are an active part.
Why don't you engage in questions for me?
B: Speaking on the subject of tolerance only?
F: Not necessarily.
M: As you look down and you view humans, what is it that you see that
makes us most intolerant of each other?
F: One's assertion of their own ego without recognition of the
individuality of the other, without conscious acceptance of the
citizenship of the other individual, without respect for that
individual's right to exist, or I should say, co-exist with you.
M: And what would you say is the most important thing we could do to
F: Learn to love yourself more fully. Learn to feel the Father's love
flow through you more fully. Learn to become aware of the reality of
that which you participate in even here tonight.
L: How can we better learn to deal with that issue we mentioned in
dealing with an act that is harmful to ourselves or others around us
and yet be able to associate and be loving with those individuals?
I think that's something that I can think of some specifics in my
life that I've struggled with for a long time. I think to avoid that
person altogether is not always the right answer because we would be
avoiding everybody if you really took it to the extreme; and we don't
have the opportunity then to learn. I understand that time is a big
factor on occasions that I haven't had before, but beyond that can
you add any comments?
F: I believe you have some information provided for you in your text on
this matter. When you are confronted with this situation that you
find yourself feeling intolerable, ask yourself a few questions.
First of all, what is my motivation? Why do I feel this way?
Secondly, if you have determined that you are justified in your
feelings, then ask another person to share with you feedback as to
your feelings. If the other individual validates your feelings, then
I would suggest that you confront that individual if you feel it
necessary because of circumstances that must require your presence
with this person. Confront them in such a way as to want
clarification as to their motives. If you understand their motives,
you learn much about that person and your intolerance may dissipate
If, after this attempt, you still feel that your intolerance is
justified, then I suggest that, if the other person is willing, a
third or fourth person be brought in to help, if you will, arbitrate
or give objective opinions as to the differences of yourself and this
individual. In conjunction with all of this, of course, prayer is
most effective. Communicate through your spirit fragment to their
spirit fragment so that there may be an opening of mind, a better
Always, my friends, express love. Never be afraid to show forth that
love which now resides within you. Even though it may be
misinterpreted now, that is not for you to concern yourself with.
Even though they may shun you now, remember, you have an eternity of
experience to look forward to and in time, they will come to you.
They will literally seek you out, for it will be something that they
must resolve within themselves. They must come to an understanding
that if they were wrong and somehow caused harm to you, they will
want to make that right.
L: I think where I have difficulty is, having taken some of those steps,
being patient and still finding myself associating with some of these
people, I guess I haven't grown enough in myself to not feel hurt or
I don't even know the words to put on the feelings or emotions I
have, but I think that I don't have enough strength in myself
sometimes to withstand that situation; and I allow that to become a
negative in my life. It's destructive. I guess that's just a matter
of dealing with more patience.
F: That is of course part of it. However, you have assessed yourself
correctly if you feel that you have allowed this situation to
generate within yourself and it has become a negative, a block of the
Father's love is what I would perceive it as. This only creates
disharmony, discordance within yourself. This condition leads to a
multiple of conditions that manifest itself in attitude, in spiritual
insight, in emotional, mental and physical well-being. These things
you should try to eliminate as quickly as possible from yourself.
There will be those situations in your life that you will not be able
to take yourself out of and do seem to be conducive to a lack of
spiritual development. I would suggest to you that you look at those
individuals as your Master did while he walked your planet; and
knowing that these individuals are truly mentally and spiritually a
child, receive them as such, show forth your patience and your
tolerance of their lack of understanding. This will not necessarily
cause them to change their behavior toward you; but it will do much
to heal the inner turmoil within yourself.
For when you boil it down, what is most important to you during the
life in the flesh? It is, I would hope, first and foremost, an
understanding of the love and the will of God. Anything that blocks
that for you should be eradicated.
S: Does the level of our desire to feel the Father's love and to grow
spiritually directly affect that?
F: Please be more specific.
S: When the more a person desires to be spiritual, to feel the Father's
love, to do the will of the Father, that desire, does that have a
direct effect upon their spiritual growth?
F: As long as the desire leads to action, yes. Desire alone is not
L: In those situations I'm beginning to feel the presence of the Father
more and letting that wash some of those things away. I feel in a
way I'm able to do that in a crisis moment, I guess. I have more
difficulty in what I would term endurance or the long haul, the
repeated constant behavior. I can feel that and keep myself where I
need to with that up to a point; and then I find it hard to
discipline myself. I'm sure that partly as I grow to feel the
Father's love more and be more God-conscious, it will become easier I
F: You do not need to assume that. It is literally true. You recognize
your shortcomings. I believe one earlier quoted "Don't be
discouraged when you realize you are human." This is what is partly
meant by that statement. There are those times when you recognize
the limits of your achievements at the given point in time. You see
more beyond yet you have not actualized that in daily living. That
does create a tension, does it not?
Yet, here is where this evening's topic becomes most important,
especially that aspect which conditions tolerance, being patience.
Through patience, as your teacher has explained to you, you realize
what you can and cannot control, what you understand about the
situation and the time it will take in order for these things to come
to be. There is nothing which will short-circuit the events of time.
Things must, so to speak, play themselves out.
Your daily decisions will do much to facilitate the outworking; but
when you are involved with another individual, there is not much you
can do to accelerate the events. This is partly the reason why when
you ask for assistance in anything in your life that may change your
life standing, those who are in the position of responsibility of
responding to that are limited as to how quickly they can help that
petition or request come to be. Do you understand what I am saying?
M: So we should practice not only tolerance for others but for
F: I believe it starts with yourself first and then will by nature, as
the seed starts with itself, blossom into the flower or be shared
with others. You must learn to love yourself fully before you can
love another completely. This is a universe reality for all of us to
learn as we grow. You are mightily challenged on such a planet as
this, but this challenge is also a mighty stimulus for growth.
D: Felicia, could you distinguish between loving yourself and egoism?
F: Self-love is the recognition of the God within. Egoism is the
recognition of the self without God. That is somewhat black and
white...(laughter) but I was counseled to try and be somewhat
specific but yet not too conclusive. (laughter) How is that?
M: Were you also counseled to be humorous?
F: It is something that we are all witnessing and those who wish have
volunteered to engage in actual training. (laughter)
L: Who are the teachers in this training?
F: For the most part, the humans. (laughter)
S: How many groups are on line now?
F: How many groups are on line is the question. Please define "on
S: As I understand it, the groups that are in the process of getting
their own spiritual teachers throughout the world.
F: Groups that are in the process of getting teachers is somewhat vague
for there are levels of this process.
M: How about actual communication with the teachers? Is that specific
F: There are at present 48 groups who are actively receiving
communication at varying degrees. As far as the process, this has
become literally a planetary process. Many people are responding to
the spiritual gravity that has been increased upon your planet. You
will see somewhat of a geometric proportion in spiritual receptivity
among the humans as time progresses. This is the only thing in my
perception that will keep your planet from disintegratng.
F: It is the only thing that will keep the humans from destroying each
B: Are there those who are reacting negatively to the spiritual impulse?
F: There are those whose self-assertion is certainly contradictory to
the spiritual pressure being applied and are reluctant to give up the
power that they now maintain, yes. And you see part of our
difficulty is we cannot send in that soldier with one bullet. I am
stimulated by this discussion. Please continue. (laughter)
L: Since we're talking about groups that are on line, is there a teacher
that's been assigned in Columbus, Ohio yet?
F: I am unaware of this. If you wish confirmation, I will have Welmek
address this issue at another time.
M: We're intrigued by what you said about we cannot send in a soldier
with one bullet. Is that a suggestion that that is an appropriate
action for a human to take when faced with a person who is unwilling,
as you say, to give up power, who is exercising power in an
F: It is not our prerogative to make such decisions. All that I mean
by that reference is we cannot eliminate these difficulties in such
ways. We must work through the human will.
B: But the suggestion of a particular human to do such an act like you
just stated, can that be made by one of you?
D: Felicia, in what way is spiritual pressure being increased, by the
numbers of helpers on your side, or is it by an increase in the
spiritual energy that you're manipulating? What exactly do you mean
F: This would be most difficult for you to understand. You do not have
concepts which would grasp the idea of spiritual gravity as it
emanates from the Isle of Paradise itself. However, there are
channels that this energy flows throughout the universe; and there
are, with Creator Son prerogatives, those opportunities in which this
gravity may be enhanced in conjunction with this. Your Spirit of
Truth is also enhanced.
The presence of so many varied personalities who are so close to
humans also increases the human receptivity or sensitivity to
something which is beyond themselves. This recognition causes one
sometimes in silent reflection, to think about those things other
than just themselves. Obviously, when you are in silent
reflectivity and you allow thoughts to come non-self-centered, open
the floodgate for Adjuster communication.
Does not anyone have a comment about my definition of tolerance?
M: I was going to ask what your opinion is on the difference between
tolerance and patience.
F: Patience is a component of tolerance. In order to be tolerant, you
must recognize the true cosmic citizenship of individuals. To be
patient you must recognize certain factors, but you do not
necessarily have to tolerate a human or any being, for that matter.
Tolerance, if you were to put it on a scale, would be above or
greater than patience. But there is no tolerance without patience.
But there can be patience without tolerance.
L: How would you define the difference between tolerance and
F: If I may use this same scale, forbearance is a time extension of
tolerance. For Linda's example of seeing her limitations with the
individual she associates with, in order for her to grasp deeper
spiritual significance within her reality now, it is time to practice
forbearance. Forbearance is the recognition of the time that it must
take for another person to become more God-conscious and for you to
maintain your own self-identity as a child of God. You can be
tolerant with an individual today; but forbearance extends for
eternity. Does that help you?
L: Yes, thank you.
F: I have noticed something about humans that I wish to get feedback on.
When I ask this question, does that help you? I have seemed to notice
at times, not with this group of course because we have not had the
pleasure of interaction, but I have noticed where the individual
says "Yes, that does help." but that does not seem to be the case, or
at least their behavior certainly doesn't indicate such. Can you
help me understand why you would respond in a positive, when in
apparent reality, it is not positive?
B: We don't want to show our ignorance. (laughter)
M: The other reason is that we have to sit down and digest what you've
said; and then if we could come back and talk with you again, I bet
we'd have l0 other questions on that same subject.
F: I see. So when you say that it helps what you are saying is "Let me
think about it."
GROUP: Yes, that's right....exactly.
F: So it does not necessarily help.
K: It might have helped for the moment, but it doesn't mean you totally
understand the concept. But it suffices for the moment.
L: It opens the door.
F: But in your language, why do you not express yourself more
M: It may have to do with the way in which the question is posed. If
you're posing a question that requires either a yes or no answer,
then you don't give somebody very much of an opportunity to respond.
F: But one has the choice or option to respond in any manner that they
so desire, irregardless of the nature of my formulation of the
M: That's correct; but if the person responds no to the question "Does
that help?" and they say "no", that may not be an accurate response
either because it may not be a yes or no. It may be that the
information was partly helpful, but it wasn't completely helpful.
And it was already said that the person may have to think more about
it before it's more helpful.
F: This I understand. I suppose my point is that if it requires more
thought, why not respond with "Let me think about it before I answer
L: Do you think sometimes we've been taught and trained to respond as
we do partly out of acknowledgment for the person who is teaching
us, especially if it is somebody we feel is superior or having more
knowledge than ourselves? Sometimes it's viewed as respectful not to
respond in that way unless there were something very specific to come
back with and say "I don't understand this one aspect."
F: This seems to be more to the point; and I appreciate your comments my
sister. But I will tell you that as you graduate into the schools of
mansion worlds, you will learn very quickly that it is best to
respond as accurately as you possibly can so that those who are
trying to give you instruction do not have to read between the lines.
They will know exactly how your are feeling and what you are
We are all dominated by love. We understand more fully than you how
our universe works and the love that is shared within it. Do not
feel that you hurt our feelings or even out of courtesy, show respect
by responding in a way that is not truly reflective of how you think
L: I think I've come to understand that relationship to the teachers
now, but I think how we are taught to deal with others within our own
society, we're carrying those teachings over into how we begin to
relate to you before we really understood some things. I think
that's still what you see in us.
F: I perceive this is true, and I also perceive this as a reason why
there is conflict on your world; for there is a lack of sincere,
direct, honest communication. Please don't misunderstand my
motivation here. I truly wish to know Urantians as fully as I can so
that I am most effective in my role as teacher for my group. I ask
these questions out of sincere love and appreciation of your
L: I think that is where what is now available in training, listening
skills are so valuable, is exactly what you're saying, to be able to
reflect back to ask questions to clarify. I don't think the average
person is using those yet. Even those of us who have tried to train
in that don't (?) but at least it's a beginning.
I have a question about communication. Are we capable, by just
improving our verbal communication, to arrive at that level of
communication that will allow us to find more common ground...But it
seems to me from what I was reading, that there is actually a process
of almost reading another mind that allows more perfect
communication. Short of that, what's the best that you think we could
strive to achieve just by improving verbally what we do in
communication in that regard?
F: Are you asking me how you can improve your level of communication
while in the flesh?
L: Maybe to what extent we can expect to be successful is my question.
F: The extent you can be successful is directly related to the energy
you put forth. There is no real limitation in my opinion as to the
extent in which you can improve your communication. However, you
must remember that communication is more than an exchange of thought
It is also coupled with exchange of feeling.
L: It also takes an attempt from two sides for there to be good
F: For there to be complete communication, yes. For there to be
accurate communication, some of my colleagues would question my
answer, but I believe that accuracy in communication on your part if
properly motivated inasmuch as the spirit fragment in the other
individual has heard what has been expressed and therefore will be
able in time to relate this information to the individual's mind that
you are speaking to.
L: I always thought of it as if I've spoken and it's not been received,
then I'm not truly communicating; but you're adding a dimension that
I've not given a thought to, that the Thought Adjuster hears it and
continues to work with that.
F: Understand the subtleties of what I am saying. I said that I did not
perceive it to be complete because there was no receptivity on the
other side. But accurate, yes, because if motivated properly, and if
what you are communicating is indeed true, it is accurate inasmuch as
that spirit fragment has received the information and there has been
a connection, if you will.
M: Can you tell us where you're teaching?
F: I am with the group in Arizona. Most interesting experience.
(laughter) There is a wide variety of individuals who are beginning
to attune themselves with our teachings, but not from an intellectual
point of reference, more from a vibratory point of reference. It
allows me a range of expression that many teachers do not get to
L: Can you explain "vibratory frame of reference"?
F: Have you not in your experience felt a attunement with another
individual, and yet you did not intellectually understand why you
were drawn to that person?
F: I don't know how else to relate this to you in terms that you can
understand, but my expression has been made known to many and there
are those who are responding, not due to the intellectual concepts
but more to the fact that it seems to "feel" right. They are drawn
to this feeling, they sense an awakening within themselves beyond
that which they have perceived. Some understand it, some do not.
But the fact is, when you have these feelings, you cannot deny the
reality of them, can you?
L: How would this group be judged? Are we proceeding more on an
intellectual frame of reference than a vibratory?
F: Now you make me walk the hot coals..(laughter)
B: I guess you're not going to answer that.
M: She's probably trying to figure out how to straddle the line.
F: I'm looking at your teacher and I'm not getting help. (laughter)
It is that look of "You've got yourself out there, now figure it
L: He's walked the hot coals many times himself.
F: Which must explain the smile on his face. (laughter) Could I get
away with saying I'm not familiar enough with your group? (laughter)
I would say, based on a relatively short time of association, that
your group tends to function on a harmonic vibratory level more of a
M: Define "harmonic vibratory".
F: You are in tune with each other more on a conceptual basis. Does that
help you? This does not say there is no feeling, for there certainly
is; but your minds seem to come together and blend well. That seems
to be more of the focus if I understand your question correctly.
B: Could this group venture into the vibratory harmonics as your group
F: Venture in...(laughter)
B: Be instructed in...experience.
F: I believe that anyone who is of sound mind can learn techniques of
attuning themselves with the feeling of love or the feelings of
vibrations of energy with the universe. How is that for an answer?
I do not mean to avoid your question, but you must understand that
those individuals that I reference in Arizona are individuals who
simply feel more intensely than, as a whole, this group does.
L: Is there one method that is preferred over the other by the teaching
F: As long as the individual is willing to seek the will of the Father,
it matters not.
M: Ultimately, your goal must be to get us balanced in both of those
F: It is as you say.
J: Felicia, I know when I was brought into the group it was on an
intellectual level, but my confirmation of what is being said is
right has always been through vibratory level in my meditations and
in what's being said.
F: And this is good. This is as we have just said, our goal, to help
each of you realize the God within yourself. It is both
intellectual and feeling. Your career goal in this area is to learn
this balance, to achieve the harmonics of love. Love rings
beautifully throughout the universe. It is expressed by the artisans
in art. It is expressed by celestial musicians in their music. It
expressed by the reversion directors in their humor and I could go on
for quite a while.
M: And so as Welmek assesses this group, he would want to bring and use
teaching methods and techniques or ideas that would help us bring our
feeling level up and so for you one of your difficult tasks is how to
find intellectual or bring about intellectual harmony among the
group that you're now dealing with. Is that accurate?
F: Take out the word "difficult" please.
M: Okay. (laughter)
F: My attempt at humor. (laughter) But that is what I must do. I must
be able to first, as your Master, our Master, did so eloquently,
reach to the individual and find grounds of commonality, find out
what you can share with that person that will help them to understand
the fact that you do care for them, that you do love them. Just to
say the words does not hold much water. It is when that person feels
and knows that you understand them, that then they can accept the
words that you love them. Once you can communicate at that level,
then you will be able to build upon their foundation with the
concepts, the building blocks, of truth. My job, at this point in
time, is to take their understanding of cosmic harmonics and be able
to blend that in with the spiritual truth.
M: Are you anticipating making Urantia Books appear in each of their
F: I do not necessarily feel that the Urantia Book is important for them
at this point in time. In my attempt right now, my first priority is
to unify them as a group. We are very young. We have only spent a
few weeks together, and there are many people whom we are trying to
encourage to participate. Once we get this feeling of uniformity,
this feeling of cohesiveness, then I can pursue more of the
intellectual levels of understanding universe reality and will, of
course, encourage all to take an active and aggressive approach to
not only reading, but understanding and applying those principles
within the text.
L: As I am meeting more people who are being drawn to these different
groups, I am meeting more individuals who feel they have had
communication with other spirit beings previously. I understand
that that can be true at times, but there also might be some
situations where it might be all in their mind or some other
situation. Can you give us any insight into how to look at
situations and have some sense of which may be the case, or how those
individuals can for themselves?
F: It is difficult for me to counsel you as to what individuals have
outside communication and what individuals do not. Your meter, your
measuring stick, is what, again, our Master has said succinctly. "By
their fruits you shall know them."
D: When there is information that is shared that is perhaps not of a
spiritual nature and there seems to be some communication, is there a
guideline to look at to judge the authenticity of that communication
F: You must look at how it makes you think, how it makes you feel. You
must try to be as objective as you can in relationship to the
information you have perceived forthcoming from a source outside
your own mind.
Never assume anything. This is a principle which you are all aware
of. I would encourage you to practice. Always look for the truth
in everything that you do.
There are times in communication of this nature where the expression
of the individual transmitter, human transmitter, is permissible.
The transmission of the human information may be colored by emotion
or intellectual input. As you know from previous statements by
your teacher, these things may or may not be corrected at any given
point in time if they are not of a spiritual nature.
This form of communication, my friends, is not complete. It is not
perfect. Do not assume that it is. By the fruits you shall know
them. Always adhere to the spiritual philosophies presented. Apply
them. If they make you whole, if they make you happy, if they make
you more complete within yourself, then continue. If you find that
something does not seem to mesh with your personality, then question
So far, it is my opinion that 97% of those people who engage in the
process of trying to transmit our messages are as sincere and
accurate as they can be. There are again, however, those times when
self-expression is permitted, even at times encouraged. Yet at the
same time confusion may arise from this information; and each of you
must assess the validity of that which you have received, how it is
applied to your daily living and whether or not it has merit.
Do any of you deny the spiritual significance of the messages that
you have read or heard during the time you have been involved with
GROUP: No...absolutely not...
F: Confusion then arises in more factual information.
GROUP: Yes...I don't think that's wrong either because it encourages us
to think harder and to try to raise our own level of intelligence so that
we can understand what you're saying.
F: Your thought is consistent with ours in this regard.
D: What measures are being taken to enhance the distribution of the
Urantia Book on this planet at this time?
F: I am not as familiar with this as others would be. I am fairly new
to your world. If you like, I will disengage and have another
answer your question.
M: Oh heavens no. You're giving us too many answers. (laughter)
D: Felicia, what order of being are you?
F: I am an ascending mortal.
D: Do you hail from Nebadon?
M: Could you be a little more descriptive about it?
F: I am trying not to. (laughter)
L: Can you tell us how old you are?
F: I can, but there are so many more important questions I wish to
D: How is your group able to attain this vibratory level of feeling so
F: They for the most part, as individuals, already had achieved this
before they came to the group.
D: Through their practice of the worship, meditation and prayer?
F: Among other things, yes.
D: Can you tell us what those other things are?
F: Healing techniques is one specific.
M: Anything else?
F: For the most part, these are all.
J: Does the geographic location help as far as the energy level?
L: The environment?
F: Do you mean physical?
L: I guess that would be conducive to a better mental environment in
some respects for certain people.
F: Indeed. There are many aspects to consider. The physical
environment really has little to do with the energy now present on
this planet. All of you are able to partake of such phenomenal
amounts of energy if you, through practice, learn to attune yourself
L: How does learning healing techniques help increase this vibratory
F: The primary function of a human healer is one which simply channels
the energy through their system to help intensify the flow through
the receiver. If you are successful at this, you will have learned
the technique of freeing your mind and your heart to allow the love
to more completely flow through you. The more one is filled with
God's love, the more accelerated the energy, the more in tune is the
harmonic vibration of the dense physical mechanism. Unfortunately,
given your structure, your material structure, your bodies, there is
a limit as to the amount of feeling you can derive from this love,
this energy flowing through you. Once you are given your morontial
forms, it is quite substantially increased, almost exponentially.
So you see there is no secret to being a healer. It is a matter of
faith. It is a matter of worship. It is a matter of living, making
those decisions which will lead you to do the Father's will in all
that you do. The more completely you achieve this, the more benefit
you are to those that you try to help.
M: You must, as teachers, have an awful lot more questions about us
humans as the one stated earlier. Who do you get these answers from?
F: We have instructors who have spent time on your world, some in the
flesh, some not. There are the midway associates who have spent many
years in close association with humans and have many delightful
stories to share with us. (laughter) There are times like I tonight
that simply ask the questions to get your immediate response as to
why you behave in the some of the patterns that you do. But I must
admit that I, too, like so many of my associates, have some need for
further understanding in regards to the human nature as expressed on
M: As do we. (laughter)
L: Would you like to ask us any more questions?
M: I see you definitely don't like that word "difficult". (laughter)
F: Precisely. (laughter) Actually, I have many questions that I would
like to ask you, but I am being told that my time is over.
M: Tell him "No, no."
GROUP: We appreciate you being with us...come again sometime. Yes.
Please come back.
F: I appreciate you accepting me into your minds and your hearts. I pray
for you that you will be able to achieve the level of God-
consciousness that will enhance your ability to feel this love and
share it with others. Go in peace.
WELMEK: This is Welmek. Once again, my floor has been taken from me.
(Laughter) But I believe it was well worth the time.
I will respond to any general questions if you have them for me.
Otherwise we will discuss next week's meeting and adjourn for the
M: Welmek, I have one. I have someone that's in another city who has
just had surgery and cannot attend these meetings as she would like
to. She has requested a personal teacher. I don't know whether
that's a possibility or not.
W: As a rule, one does not get a teacher assigned specifically.
However, it is permissible to assign a guide to that individual. I
know you may not see the difference, but to me there is. Tell that
person to pray to their angels for assistance in this area; and I
believe that she will find the help that she seeks.
M: Thank you.
D: What is the distinction between guides and teachers?
W: I call myself your teacher and guide. I am your guide inasmuch as I
spend time with you and encourage you to think about things in
different ways. I encourage you as your guide to love more than you
do now, and I also am permitted, as your guide, to help you in your
As your teacher, I am permitted to bring to you concepts that perhaps
you have not considered before. I can help you arrange them in
thought patterns that may shed more light on the issue. As a
teacher, I do not spend the individual time with you that as a guide
I can. As a teacher, I will not be with you as long as your guide
has been assigned to you.
D: Will the guide also try to develop thought patterns as you do as our
W: Not to the extent that I as your teacher will. You see, my job right
now is to help you attune yourself to your real teacher.
D: The Thought Adjuster.
W: Yes. Your guide is simply there really more for support than the
instruction we receive together in these types of meetings.
D: Welmek, what is the relationship of our guide with our attending
angels? Would the angels serve as our guide in some cases?
W: Yes. This would be more or less accurate to say. The association
between the angels and the guide is most cohesive, most
complementary, most loving and most selfless serving to you. Your
guides hopefully will be able to facilitate communication with you
sooner than perhaps you would be able to achieve with your angels.
This is part of Michael's plan.
D: How are they able to better achieve communication? Is it their
W: Not necessarily, for not all guides are mortal. They are more
closely associated with your minds.
If there are no further questions?....Do you feel that this evening's
discussion on tolerance is sufficient?
M: Are you going to give us your explanation of what tolerance is before
W: I do not believe it is necessary. I believe that Felicia adequately
expressed for all of us what tolerance consists of and the importance
of its expression in your daily life. Do you remember how she
described it? Can anyone repeat it? (laughter)
M: She was going too fast for me.
W: Tolerance is applied faith, motivated by love, dominated by mercy,
conditioned by patience and perceived as graciousness.
We could spend time discussing each aspect more fully.
K: We could do that next week.
W: Machiventa and I and Ham and a few of my other associates have
discussed this group and its format on the next few weeks. Our
conclusion is to allow you to be involved continually in the
direction. We are here to serve you as long as you more or less do
what we want. (laughter) I think Andrew would enjoy that comment.
M: Is that a weighted voting system? We each have one vote and you have
W: As the teacher, do not I get that prerogative? Well, what do you
think we should discuss next week? Is there a topic other than what
we have discussed tonight that you feel would be important in your
development and in your preparation for the imminent events that will
D: I think maybe courage and steadfastness are something we might want
to focus on because I think we're going to be put on the hot seat.
W: Courage, a most honorable characteristic.
L: I've begun to realize that there's a difference between courage and
confidence. I don't know if that could be part of the discussion.
W: It sounds like you would make a good moderator. (laughter)
L: I will.
M: Courage and confidence.
M: Well, courage is the real topic. Confidence.. Courage was one of his
top 5 characteristics.
W: Also, I want to encourage you all in preparation for future meetings
to ask as specific questions as you can. It will allow me to respond
as specifically as I can.
M: Welmek, is there going to be a meeting before April that all of us
can ask questions about what's coming up and our feelings?
W: Do you have something that you wish to express now?
M: Well, if I did it would take an hour and I don't think that's right.
It's too late. Can we all hold a meeting maybe in March and bring up
questions we have on it?
W: You may ask questions at any time when the floor is open. If this
group wishes a meeting devoted to this, then I will certainly
entertain this idea. Do you all feel apprehensive?
M: I don't think it's apprehension. I'll just ask five questions. We
were wondering how much time Machiventa will spend with us.
M: Are we going to be able to touch him or will he not be touchable?
W: Doubtful that you will be able to touch him. This is under
discussion. In my opinion there is no reason why we should not allow
GROUP: All right...I like that one...should we take snips of his garment
and have them sold for autographs? (laughter)
W: If you wish to show your associates pictures of a being who has
appeared in front of you to validate in their mind your probable
M: But would his appearance be photographable? Would it be possible to
W: Based on the density level of manifestation, I believe so.
L: Will he be able to speak directly to us, or will he need a
W: He will be able to speak on his own.
M: Are we going to be able to get a hug...
W: I do not believe this will be permissible.
D: Will that be because this will be a morontia presentation?
M: When Machiventa comes back here permanently to set up the schools and
whatever else he's going to be doing, is it going to be on a
permanent basis, or is he going to be able to..I don't know what the
word is..go from planet to planet like he does now or is he going to
be basically stuck here?
W: He will be "stationed" here. (laughter)
M: I was going back to the way he had 90-some odd years here before and
then he had to go back. I was wondering whether it would be the same
way or not.
W: I'll let Machiventa respond to the word "stuck". (laughter) Do you
have other inquiries?
G: Do you have any idea how long it will be before they establish the
W: I am not permitted to divulge that information. We have an agenda,
but there are certain events that have not taken place yet that are
directly related to the establishment of the schools. Therefore,
since some things are not in our control, I should say many things
are not in our control, it is difficult for me to know myself exactly
when this will happen. Therefore, it is advisable not to give you
L: I have a question regarding some statements you made some months ago.
You said that the teachers were considering a petition for
visualization. It had to be approved by Machiventa and then go to
Michael himself; and if Michael approved it, watch out. At what
stage in the negotiations are you now on this matter?
W: We have already received our approval necessary.
D: So it's in the "watch out" stage? (laughter)
M: Will the session with Machiventa be an address by him, or will there
be time for questions and answers?
W: Undetermined. If I have my way, there will be questions and answers.
However, the difficulty is, as you can imagine, once the initial
shock wave has settled, who will not want to ask questions? We are
uncertain as to the exact nature of this event, as far as these types
of details. The general agenda as it stands now is for a
presentation by one of the Melchizideks, a lesson and salutation. I
do not know if there will be questions and answers. I do not know,
as I indicated earlier, how long this will last.
D: That may be about all we can handle.
W: That is certainly a consideration of ours. But that may be
determined on the response at that point in time. Therefore, it is
difficult for me to sometimes give you the specific answers you seek.
J: Are we supposed to be getting a more exact schedule later?
W: Exact schedule as to when this will occur?
W: I believe we have given that, perhaps not to all. It is established
now that this event will take place on Saturday, approximately in the
M: Does the materialization of the teachers hinge upon this event? In
other words, once Melchizidek makes this appearance, will that then
open the door for other teachers to materialize or is that decision
independent of Machiventa's materialization?
W: As it stands right now, our manifestation to you visibly is directly
related to the Melchizidek appearance.
M: With that in mind, are we going to be able to, if we can handle
Machiventa and we can handle seeing you, will we eventually see our
W: I do not know.
M: Could you put it up for discussion with Machiventa and Ham and the
rest of them?
M: Thank you.
M: We keep talking about the materialization of Machiventa. You keep
saying Melchizidek. Is the materialization going to be of Machiventa
or will it be of another Melchizidek?
M: Has a decision about simultaneous materializations been determined?
Or is that still under discussion?
W: That will not take place.
M: So there will only be the one in the outskirts of Chicago.
W: On that day at that time.
M: But there are other days that have been confirmed?
W: There are other days that are being discussed. We may not make our
decision until we have the first one, as you say, under our belts.
M: Have you planned for a lot of smelling salts to be available?
(laughter) Just joking.
K: You're in charge of that, Mike.
W: I wish to thank all of you for your whole-hearted participation in
tonight's meeting. It pleases me to see you in the group as a whole.
I must admit that several of us discussed whether or not this group
would remain united, given the new format. You have once again shown
us that the human will is very strong, the desire to know the Father
is even stronger. Always learn more about each other. Do not do
anything if you can to cause disharmony within the unit, within the
group. You all express your own personalities and this is the way it
should be; but your first real test is to learn to understand your
differences, accept them and live above them.
Go in peace. Always seek God's love and we will speak again next
GROUP: Thanks...good night.