Talk:2013-12-06-New Era Conversations 12
Gerdean wrote: Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 3:09 PM
As someone who is more than cursorily familiar with the problems of addiction and the miracles of recovery, I found Daniel Raphael's Melchizedek to have missed the mark completely when he said:
"... it is not that we do not care about these people, but it is a matter of limited resources for the greatest amount of return to the societies of Urantia. It is not that we are leaving these addictive personalities by the wayside of civilization, for we are not. There are choices that are involved in all of these projects for us, for you and for those people who are addicted and how they got into that position. We would far more greatly see the need for preventative action toward those addictive personalities who have not, in fact, become addicted to alcohol or some other form of drugs.
Those who are already addicted are a small percentage of your society and it is unfortunate for their situation. We love them; God loves them; there is nothing to forgive—it is simply a matter of their living choices and needing to learn to live new lives within their societies. You may come to an erroneous opinion or conclusion that spirit does not care about these people, but surely we do. We wish you to remember that the time is very short now and that our message must get out to the broadest population of the world. We also consider the return on our investment. When we invest in populations that are free from addiction and free from these inclinations, we know that those who will follow these socially sustainable procedures will also see the benefit and share them with others. This assists our work to broaden its audience to the largest number of people."
especially when he rounds out his lesson with a discussion about the three kinds of currency: financial, social, and political and is overlooking the fact that people in recovery are a dynamic force for each of these realms. It could be said that everybody involved in the Correcting Time is a person in recovery from the effects of the Lucifer Rebellion and the Adamic Default. Those who have been born again, born of the spirit, who have turned away from their legacy of "self-will run rampant" through excesses of alcohol, drugs, sex, gambling, over-eating, smoking, shopping, chaos, adrenlin, power, politics, war, ad nauseum, and turned to a Higher Power for solutions and Good Orderly Direction have far more to offer humanity than those who are content to sit in the dark and let others do their thinking for them. A wet drunk is as useless as a rich publican, but those who have made a decision to live in God's will, do atone for their wayward past in very productive lives, dedicated to the highest good for all of humanity.
Wonder what he thinks "preventative action" is?
Marty wrote: Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 5:03 PM
As someone who is more than cursorily familiar with the problems of addiction and the miracles of recovery, I found Daniel Raphael's Melchizedek to have missed the mark completely when he said:
"... it is not that we do not care about these people, but it is a matter of limited resources for the greatest amount of return to the societies of Urantia.
Question: Who is the "we"? Is he speaking for Michael and Mother? for the planetary regime? for the angels and seraphim, guardians of addicted mortals?
Whose resources are limited? is it the resources of our Creator? Perhaps Machiventa has never experienced the tremendous power of the healing of such addicts who sank to the very bottom and were saved by their hope and faith, by the love of their families and peers. It is the very top wrung of the ladder out of the hell of this world upon which a former addict lives and loves. They "return" the investment in them far and wide.
It is not that we are leaving these addictive personalities by the wayside of civilization, for we are not. There are choices that are involved in all of these projects for us, for you and for those people who are addicted and how they got into that position. We would far more greatly see the need for preventative action toward those addictive personalities who have not, in fact, become addicted to alcohol or some other form of drugs.
The preventive action was not given to us as Prince Caligastia cast our world into total darkness, oppressed by slavery and oppression, poverty and disease, fear and faithlessness. Addiction was just a relief from the hell of life on this world. Now it is time to bring in healing energies which are greatly needed.
Those who are already addicted are a small percentage of your society and it is unfortunate for their situation. We love them; God loves them; there is nothing to forgive—it is simply a matter of their living choices and needing to learn to live new lives within their societies.
These are the words of a personality who has not experienced addiction. Addiction happens when one's will powers are defeated by animal impulses and cravings that get out of control. This is certainly not a "simple" matter. If it was simple, there would be no addiction. Certainly no need for rehab.
You may come to an erroneous opinion or conclusion that spirit does not care about these people, but surely we do.
There is no death, so we needn't be concerned about the decimation of the population by way of geophysical catastrophes and pandemic diseases. And we needn't concern ourselves with the sick and diseased population of our world who are suffering in hospitals and in pain. As well as for the addicts who are beyond their personal choice to quit. However, the lessons that come with experience are very powerful. The lessons that come with the grace of God are the very greatest.
We wish you to remember that the time is very short now and that our message must get out to the broadest population of the world.
What took you so long as to just now find that you have not the time to do things in the light of love for EACH and EVERY soul on this hellhole?
We also consider the return on our investment. When we invest in populations that are free from addiction and free from these inclinations, we know that those who will follow these socially sustainable procedures will also see the benefit and share them with others. This assists our work to broaden its audience to the largest number of people."
Those who are recovering and healed are far more revealing of the benefits of sobriety than those who know not of this calamity in one's life.
If this transcript is truly the words and teachings of Machiventa, I will have to ask Christ Michael if He is investing in the right stocks and bonds. The market is about to collapse!
Marty
Gerdean wrote: Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 6:39 PM
Question: Who is the "we"? Is he speaking for Michael and Mother? for the planetary regime? for the angels and seraphim, guardians of addicted mortals?
It sounds like he is speaking for the Tea Party.
Whose resources are limited? is it the resources of our Creator? Perhaps Machiventa has never experienced the tremendous power of the healing of such addicts who sank to the very bottom and were saved by their hope and faith, by the love of their families and peers. It is the very top wrung of the ladder out of the hell of this world upon which a former addict lives and loves. They "return" the investment in them far and wide.
They are precisely the kinds of people Jesus came to save. ... and we should follow in his footsteps.
The preventive action was not given to us as Prince Caligastia cast our world into total darkness, oppressed by slavery and oppression, poverty and disease, fear and faithlessness. Addiction was just a relief from the hell of life on this world. Now it is time to bring in healing energies which are greatly needed.
Addiction is an unfortunate side-effect of such ease-seeking solace, but Jesus heard their cries and lifted them up, as should we, not cast them aside because they don't adequately support the economy. Since when did Machiventa become a Republican?
These are the words of a personality who has not experienced addiction. Addiction happens when one's will powers are defeated by animal impulses and cravings that get out of control. This is certainly not a "simple" matter. If it was simple, there would be no addiction. Certainly no need for rehab.
It is NOT a small percentage. It is said that 94% of humanity is dysfunctional, having one "social disease" or another. That is the reason for the Correcting Time.
What took you so long as to just now find that you have not the time to do things in the light of love for EACH and EVERY soul on this hellhole?
That woman who wrote in, regarding their sincere efforts to create a sustainable life-style and assist in the process of Correcting Time (recovery) for and with people who could well be members of her own family -- or herself! -- or just local yokels who recognize the leadership qualities these people who could also provide a great service to the community if they set themselves to the task of saving souls while saving seeds ... she ought not to have been advised that her altruism was a waste of natural resources.
Those who are recovering and healed are far more revealing of the benefits of sobriety than those who know not of this calamity in one's life.
There is no greater miracle than to see the lights come on in the eyes of those who have been lost, but now are found, especially if and when you have played a part in it.
Thanks, Marty.
Steffani wrote: Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 3:12 PM
I'm pretty sure Machiventa is aware that chemical dependencies are illnesses caused by brain chemistry abnormalities...And "GOD' as we understand Him, went to a HELL of a great deal of effort to bring forth the 12 step programs, that have brought so many otherwise truly hopeless individuals into a saving personal relationship with Him. One individual's miraculous "white light" experience led to this development.
Machiventa is technically acting in a role equivalent to the 'Lord God' of the Old Testament replacing Caligastia by Christ Michael's request...and I wonder whether the reason certain of the celestial higher ups, not excepting 'Monjoronson' are simply significantly "dumbing down" their communications to the level of humans of meagerly average intelligence and educational levels is a perceived need to communicate in such manner...Or something else has transpired to cause this dearth of useful and omission of usable material past the ability of an ordinary high school teacher to deliver, much less a TeaM teacher...And this seeming to lack awareness of the limitless love of our Heavenly Father is inexplicable...and unbelievable.
Then again, we were warned of the disconnect that would occur whenever that which is always freely given by the Celestial Beings is given a market value by mortals involved in the process of sharing their spiritual gifts. And there was another caveat against those who would speak for 'the Gods' to their fellows rather than encourage them to listen in the stillness and establish their own one on one relationship with their divine indwelling Spirit Gift of our Paradise Father, and Jesus/Christ Michael and our Creative Mother Spirit.
This just doesn't sound like the 'Big Mac' we all came to know, love, and wholeheartedly trust with the future of Urantia the way Christ Michael does.
Marty wrote:Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 5:25 PM
Thank you for posting this view of the NEC#12, Steffani.
For some time now I have been questioning these transcripts. Oliver has referred to the previous one as a mind f*ck and has been complaining about them for some time now. I have been telling him to realize that these transmississions are coming through a mortal mind and not to let them disturb his faith.
It is becoming evident that something is not right in these lessons and we need to consider that they are not coming through as hoped for.
The Colorado group that is addressed by Daniel as T/R and the fantastic people who are moderating and transcribing in this very large venture of accessing the instructions and lessons of the Magisterial Mission are a very committed and dedicated team that I am proud to know as associates in our correcting time activities. However, the time has come after transcript after transcript becomes questioned as to its truth and its source.
I have decided to quit posting the NECs as Harp of God Bulletins. I am asking for a response from Daniel, Michael, and/or Roxanne about how they feel about this. Please realize that this is a vital concern that I have and would not express this lightly. I am hoping for heartfelt communication.
Thank you, Marty
